Several historic figures from the Argentina National Team could be returning to the squad for next month’s matches.
Argentina coach Lionel SCALONI has no time to waste following Argentin’s matches from this week. The manager will have to announce his lost of players for next month’s friendly matches against Egypt and Brazil next Friday, on the 21st of September.
Per a report by TyC Sports, there are a few names from times past which could be included for the two games. The players rumored to be in the list are the following:
Lionel MESSI, Sergio AGUERO, Angel DI MARIA, Nicolas OTAMENDI, Eduardo SALVIO and Gabriel MERCADO.
In the cases of Gabriel MERCADO and Eduardo SALVIO, they were both initially in SCALONI’s list but had to pull out due to injury.
However, the list should include many of the players which were recently part of the United States tour. TyC are reporting that Gonzalo MARTINEZ and Franco CERVI left a good impression on SCALONI while Lautaro MARTINEZ (initially in the squad but left because of an injury) and Mauro ICARDI will be there next month. This would likely mean that no Gonzalo HIGUAIN in the list.
Argentina will play Egypt on October 11 before playing Brazil on October 16 in Saudi Arabia.
In the absence of messi, Aguero provide threat to Brazil defense where simeone or Lautaro can’t, Icardi is under pressure for goal drought and Dybala is finished
dybala far from finish.
“Tapia won’t keep his promises. Just wait a couple of weeks and you will hear the opposite of this. Do you remember when he said that he contacted with Pep and Gareca? Neither of them talked to him”.
Let alone he was lying that contacted Guardiola, Gareca wanting them for coach.
In that short time of period scaloni done very good job..he fix the defence brilliantly..and I have huge faith in him and his coaching staff including aimar Samuel..and i believe our juniors will give the acid test to Brazilians …just wait for the match date..
And those who thinks that argentina vs brazil match is just a friendly match to test these youngesters they dont know the history of arg-brazil match. They are arch rivals , and the match between these two teams are called most demanding match in international fixtures , there is always the match of superiority, it will be very shameful if we got humiliated by brazil by 6-0 or 7-0. Brazil is coming with their strongest squad so argentina should also play their best 11.
Argentina won the last game against Brazil as they fielded almost their best team unlike Brazil. Did that made us better? The only win? The lost didn’t broke Brazil confidence. This is test.
Some think we will get humiliated against Brazil if we play with youngsters. But they are sure we won’t get humiliated with seniors. I don’t understand this. Same seniors lost 3-0 with Messi.
If our seniors came and lost against Brazil who will take the blame… seniors..? No every fans will turn to Scaloni. If seniors win against Brazil they will take the credit.
Allow Scaloni to prove his worth against Brazil with youngsters. Let them play without stars. Let the weakest spot or the spot we can improve filled with seniors later. Now let the build a team.
Above all the defence from last two games looked solid unlike the defensive lines of last 2 years or so. I don’t want to repeat the same thing still but most important is they have played just 1/ games together.
what we have seen from last 2 friendlies , we badly need a striker like aguero, no hope from the these strikers.
maybe from lautaro and simeone in future but not now.
Don’t conclude too early. If Aguero is must we can call him later. We know what Aguero can provide. Let youngsters get their chance to prove.
I just wanted to make it clear below. This is time for youngsters test
Messi can’t change his decision and Aguero is available, i think Aguero otamendi benega deserve call up to strengthen the squad against Brazil.
and Dimaria instead of carvi makes the squad more stronger, Brazil is our rival can’t afford to lose at any cost and humiliation against Brazil will remain nightmare forever for Argentina fans just 7-1 for Brazil fans
To be honest,I have no confidence about Icardi and Lautaro..we should go to for next Copa.Such as
Our wingers..pity,María,Angel Coria.pavon.
Our back R/L:-Saravia,Tagliafico,Bustos,Insus..
Messi clearly doesn’t want to come back now, why can’t the AFA leave him alone. He knows that if he retires now from the NT then it’s over for him. He is taking time for a reason u got to respect that I guess.
Were as Aguero, Di Maria publicly proclaimed that they want to carry on with the NT. So take those again for the upcoming friendlies(The Big names apart from Messi, for money making purpose, apart from that they r not useful for the NT) . If possible may be AFA can seduce Mascherano and Biglia too.
Hopefully we all r arguing over rumors only, Tata, Historicals etc etc. Let time prove what will happen.
Agree, if it was up to us the majority here don’t want any member of the old squad called to the NT till we see how this group of young players will do for the upcoming matches. I think that no one , if any, should be called for the rest of the year, by then WE might see where We stand in terms of what positions we need.
What worries me is that if We call any of the big names, it might cause a dent in the mentality of the current young players. Brazil should be a good test for them and for Scaloni’s tactics, I still think they will do well without any of the big stars. Some here think We will get thrashed by Brazil which I suspect very much. I think those boys will fight till the end whistle to get a positive result, losing to Brazil is not Ok, but if they lose with putting a good performance and a strong fight, then they are winners in my book.
In the absence of Aguero Messi and Dimaria Spain humiliated Argentina in March, although Icardi Dybala also not played, if Argentina put same 11 as gautumela then again 6-1 humiliation loading. I hate fight till the final whistle word if not win, farmer meza showed good fight against spain so what? Argentina fight till the end against France and meza cost the match
Brazil will not Thrash Argentina regardless. All we are looking for is a good show.
Brazil barely made it through the group stage in the world cup, they are not that resilient.
Brazil will play with their full strength then why not Argentina?? Brazil is arc rival so youngster can’t absorb pressure therefore 0% chance of winning and 50% chance of humiliation. Therefore Aguero otamendi needed
even with full strength Argentina Brazil is favorite still Argentina can beat Brazil, there is no point to test young players when there is no chance of winning and chance of getting humiliated
moreover humiliation will affect the moral of team, Brazil is 3rd in Fifa ranking and last year combebol champion clearly Argentina has no chance to win the match playing like Colombia hence Aguero is must
There’s no reason to think this solid defense of last friendlies will lost more to Brazil than it could have happen to Mercado, Otamendi or Rojo. They were poor in last 2 years.
One match and people already asking for Aguero? Seriously ? Yes,He is one of the best but for how much longer??? Can he continue his form and fitness till the next world cup??? Highly unlikely!!! That is why, We should stick with our young guns a little while longer before calling back the seniors. These guys needs to play more to build chemistry . Messi and Aguero can come back but not now, may be For or after the Copa.
Last match Icardi didn’t receive any service from the midfield whatsoever!! He is a poacher , he needs to be fed good balls to score. He is not like Aguero and Higuain who can build up play. Lets not write off Icardi just yet guys. Aguero’s fitness have cost us time and again, relying on him again is suicidal!! Again, Best time for Aguero and Messi to comeback is after the Copa America for the qualifiers . However, next Copa could be their last shot at a major silverware , So they will be back sooner than they should. But when it comes to the Qatar WC, I highly doubt Aguero can keep his fitness at the age of 35!! He is no Messi!!! Copa will be Aguero’s last tournament in albiceleste shirt.
Simeone or Lautaro can reach at the label of Aguero in 2022 but in copa Aguero is needed
It is called Foolishness to drop inform player only for a reason that may may
not be at peck 4year later but in future never know may be new batigol arrive before 2022 but not calling up Aguero is just foolishness
I don’t understand why many here underestimate the importance of COPA2019 as if it was the olympics or some low trash tournament, just thinking about the possibility of lifting the cup on Brazilian soil is thrilling.
Last time We won it was 1993, We have the talent to compete, so Why not.
I can assure you that if Scaloni plays his cards well, WE can win it. most of the old squad will not have place in the NT by then because the youngsters will most likely take over by then. No coach is sane enough to drop players who are in top form when COPA2019 comes around because he worries about a tournament 3 and a half years later. Imagine the boost in confidence level of the youngsters If We aim to win it and really do it.
Who is understating the importance of Copa??? The youngsters we have are better than most of the oldies. We don’t want to miss out on yet another trophy by taking these oldies again!!
I’m going to wait for the next squad list to be released before getting angry or frustrated because frankly we don’t know for sure whether kun and the rest are coming back or whether it’s just a rumor.
Speaking of Kun, yeah he’s a top striker but in all honesty why would you expect him to do better than Icardi? Kun, like Icardi and any world class striker, needs service and if he doesn’t get it then he won’t be effective. Argentina’s midfield against Colombia played well and created chances but apart from Tagliafico’s through ball, Icardi got no service, that has to be remedied (possibly by starting Paredes and Dybala from the get go) before doing the knee jerk reaction of replacing the guy.
I’ve been as critical on Maria as anyone on this site but if he’s included as a back up to Pity then so be it, although I think A.Correa and Ocampos should be given a chance before that happens.
Otamendi is in my opinion overrated and I think Kanneman, Barboza and possibly Musacchio should be tried before even thinking about going back to a player who has quickly become a bench warmer at his club.
Salvio and Mercado add nothing to the proceedings and I don’t see either of them making it to 2022 (if argentina makes it).
I guess at the end of the day I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the oldies as long as it doesn’t disrupt the rebuilding process that is happening.
Mercado may be the best option as a right back going into Copa 2019. Bustos is lacking majorly in his distribution and marking abilities, which he has to make up for with speed. Jose Luis Gomez is similar.
Saravia looks like he could be the right guy to take over, but needs more game time to be sure.
Mercado has good speed, physicality, and distribution in a position that is yet to be solidly filled. Plus it offers some versatility to have him play in the cb spot in case of injury/cards. He is good in the air both offensively and defensively. I’m not a huge fan of him personally, just don’t see any better options right now.
The thinking has to extend beyond copa i.e. 2022 where Mercado will be 34yrs possibly too old for a player who has to rely on fitness and pace.
Saravia is a solid option but like you said he needs more time to prove his worth while Bustos lacks the footballing IQ (for now) to be an effective LB but time is on his side.
2 other possible options are Abecasis from Godoy (but even he will be 32 by 2022) and Battaglia who has actually shown to be a very effective RB serveral times for sporting even though personally I don’t like the idea of playing player in different positions because more often than not it ends up failing.
In december 2022 Mercado will be near 36.
“Mercado may be the best option as a right back going into Copa 2019. Bustos is lacking majorly in his distribution and marking abilities, which he has to make up for with speed. Jose Luis Gomez is similar”.
Really, what do you know about Jose Luis Gomez? How many times you watched him? How many times he played for NT to judge him this way.
What about Saravia? He is better probabaly than both Bustos, Meracado.
Mercado is really not good last year. So many poor defensive bahaviours. And he is already past his best.
Saravia, Bustos, Leonardo Godoy, Abecasis, Di Placido, Montiel – these are the players to shoose from. I bet coeveal of Palacios in River, as well his teammate from U-20 team Montiel will do better than Mercado now. Under Gallardo is developed a lot.
I’ve watched Gomez since he joined Lanus in 2016 and I’m a big fan. His speed is an incredible weapon, but his distribution would leave us in trouble against organized defensive teams. We’ve seen that with Bustos and his poor passing out of the back.
Same with his mental state. returning from injury and his thoughts of retirement after one mistake against Gremio. He’s young, so it is understandable. Hopefully he returns to full form and matures from the negative experiences.
I obviously can’t judge him on the national team, but I surely can from his club play. Both he and Bustos would be better suited for a right wing back spot, versus a 4 man defense right back. Just my opinion of course.
Maybe it’s better not to assume what people do or do not know about the Argentine league?
I think Saravia and Godoy are the best chance options for starters by wc 2022. Godoy should be called up and both should be competing for the spot by getting playing time in friendlies. My point was that at this current moment, Saravia has 1 game under his belt. If we chose a team today for 2019, then the logical top choice would be Mercado for his versatility and proven work. Nothing more, nothing less.
I hope over the next year Saravia or Godoy end up proving their worth on the national team like they do for their clubs. Nothing would make me happier. It’s the best thing for moving Argentina forward.
That is valid point I agree
One thing we have now such long time is
A promise midfielders which refreshing….
Agree, but We are still waiting for Lanzini and Lamela. Our defense is getting better by the match, midfield looks promising
100 percent mate even we have good wingers the one I’m waiting most is
Joaquin correa to find form
Lanzini is doing gym work
Even our defenders look good
Our forward department is so so
I’m not fan of icardi…. I like simoene thought he May not be world class but He will hard for the team and he got Goals in him
If everything goes smooth, We should have a strong squad by 2022. It will just take some time and good decisions by the coach. the talent is there. check out this kid Benjamine Garre he is still 18. I think this kid along with the likes of Palacios, both martinez and Lo Celso will be our striking force for years to come.
Pereyra too, hes impressing at watford, almost had Premier League Player of the Month recently.
Otamendi’s best season was his last season at Valencia. He was at his peak and was easily one of the top 5 defenders in Europe that year. His tackles were immaculate. But now, He is already 30 and he will be 35 next world cup and at that age best you can be is a backup. Moreover , his international form has been pathetic. We should seriously consider pursuing with young defenders, our goal should be to have atleast 6 centre backs fighting for 2 spots by next world cup.
once again you articulated my thoughts. On Aguero, Di Maria and Otmandi.
Mercado Musachio Pezzella Tagliafico
Paredes Lo Celso
Messi Dybala Lanzini
Everyone is entitled to their opinions that’s what we r here for.
But it’s shocking to see that some still want Aguero and some other historicals to guide youngsters and prove themselves
What on earth do Aguero has to prove or show us that we haven’t seen nearly for his 50 or so matched he played in the NT(Same goes for other historicals too)
At this point only thing bringing back Aguero will do is reducing chances for either lautaro or Simone or Icardi or even Alario, nothing else, Aguero can’t teach anything to others he himself is inconsistent for NT(Don’t really care what he does for Man city)
Another example is Otamendi he won’t teach anything to Mammana or Kanneman. It’s just reducing chances for youngsters.
And my favorite Romero teaching Rulli, Wow?
It’s most surprising to see what r some of theses historicals waiting for, can’t they just retire? At least Masche and Biglia had the dignity.
Now kindly keep in mind that I don’t disrespect the older players, I will always be respectful for their services, In 2014 they gave us so much joy, same in 2015 and 2016, and I will support any player playing for the NT but for everything there will be a starting point and an ending point. THIS IS IT, THIS SHOULD BE THE ENDING POINT, THIS ALSO SHOULD BE THE STARTING POINT.
Unfortunately we can’t always expect things to happen according to our will, neither in life nor in sports or anything. We will see by next year we will get some answers hopefully.
Mate don’t worry there not many old guards left anyway but I got your point
It’s not about guidance, it’s about transitioning, sharing experience and allow competition.
No one can deny that at this moment, Aguero is our best striker. eventually down the road he will lose his spot like all other players, but for new players to evolve, they need experience, not just in matches they play but in training camps,too.
Af course aguero is the best strike we have but We misused him
He is one the few old guards players
I have big respect
Easley he is the best strike in the premier league for such long time.
Aguero is miles ahead of Alario and Simeone. At their age, Aguero was vastly better too. I want Aguero still because he was one of our best players in Russia. Until his form drops, we should use him
Tapia: “Without senior players, we seen a new Seleccion, renewed and fresh that people liked the way we liked it, I feel the same thing that people feel, because this is what we have lived in these 2 weeks, it is a new stage, which is what the Seleccion and what we all needed”
You all need to clam down.
I hope he will keep the words.
This guy is liar…
@Msi75, you nailed it! Lol
@Gonzalo, Tapia won’t keep his promises. Just wait a couple of weeks and you will hear the opposite of this. Do you remember when he said that he contacted with Pep and Gareca? Neither of them talked to him.
Few here say that WE will get thrashed by Brazil by 6-0 or 7-0 next month, I don’t understand how some really want or expect this?
I back up Argentina to be competitive in this match against Brazil, if they lose, it won’t wont be a thrashing as most expect, regardless if Messi plays or not. Scaloni’s defensive and midfield tactics are promising. All scaloni has to do is occupy the midfield with the likes of Paredes/Ascacibar , Lo Celso, Palacios and dybala. WE have to work on our forwards. Aguero’s presence is a plus.
I think Aguero is needed badly, from what I have seen from two friendlies.
Agree, At this point of time, Aguero is needed more than Messi.
Aguero may back even few weeks before Copa if we will not have good CF till the time. Now we should test Lautaro Martinez. The chance against Brazil is for him (the more he lost the chance in last friendlies due to bad luck). It’s only one game. Do you really want give the one game to Aguer which quality we already know? It’s not necesarry.
With all due respect, I think Aguero is more effective than any of the forwards we have, and will be our best striker till 2020. We have to use what we have now in order to build confidence in the new players. Having Aguero in the team now will reflect positively on the younger strikers. Calling Aguero does not mean dropping the rest.
Agree with you aguero is world class
But we have to test l Martinez before
We considere kun aguero
But we really don’t need the efectiveness in firendlies. If AGuero is effective he will be on tournament too. We need to give the friendly chances to the likes Martinez to have them prepared for Copa (people also forgot about Aguero injuries problem) .
“We have to use what we have now in order to build confidence in the new players”.
If we want to build confidence in Martinez or any other we should give him chance to score against Brazil and not to sit on the bench and watch as AGUERO MAYBE is doing it.
“But we really don’t need the efectiveness in firendlies. If AGuero is effective he will be on tournament too. We need to give the friendly chances to the likes Martinez to have them prepared for Copa (people also forgot about Aguero injuries problem) .
“We have to use what we have now in order to build confidence in the new players”.
If we want to build confidence in Martinez or any other we should give him chance to score against Brazil and not to sit on the bench and watch as AGUERO MAYBE is doing it.”
Agree, makes sense. I am not calling on Aguero to play against Brazil, I said his presence is a plus, not required. and if he is called he should not play more than 30 minutes. If it was up to me, I would not call anyone from the old squad until the end of the year.
last one should be Messi.
We need at least 2 CF not one. Say Aguero is booked but we need to find the others for Copa. So the friendlies are for them.
To be honest I’m not convinced icardi still for me has to be l Martinez and gio simoene the boy hard working ceneter forward we have give him time.Not to drop after one game and 10 minutes
Gonzalo: once again correct we need 2 forwards, ive always thought we are best with 4.4.2 as its far to easy to defend vs the lone striker and the n/t has been plagued since w.c 14 with the single striker getting near zero service as they are simply marked out of the game or we see them coming back to the half way line, a strikers job is to score goals, the mids/wingers job is to create chances and also chime in with some goals, win the ball and also defend when required the defenses job is to defend with their lives and also when called upon to go up to cause havoc at set pieces.
Where have you been? Welcome bro, once again. I share your point on view on above.
So we found point of understanding.
I’m not against call up for Aguero at all. He may be there against Brazil on the bench. But now the chance is really for Martinez to start.
Yes, I would like the new squad to have more playing time together without any disruption.
Gonzalo: my apologies for my lack of being on here, work had been busy and the afa mess and w.c have taken the wind out of my sails so to speak but just like the n.t its time to start again with new hopes and dreams.
For me im very pleased with the current direction of the n.t, its great to see some of the names we talk about finally getting a long overdew audition in the team and as we know their are many more names that should be given a chance to prove they are good enough and under the currant team bosses I believe many will get chances.
im also pleased to see some of the oldies leaving and I sincerely hope their are more to follow buy not being selected but some of them have no honor or pride by doing the right thing and making them selves not available for selection.
As they say “onwards and upwards” and of course “vamos Argentina”!!!
Good to hear you again. Please comment more.
True. Scaloni defence looked better that any defence with oldies under Sampaoli and Bauza. Go and see how many opportunities created Colombia against Venezuela. Against Argentina they barely created any.
Sampa doesn’t know what defense means. You take these guys under Sampa tactics, and the outcome would have been much worse. Using 2 awful coaches to trash old players is very misguided.
I had feeling this will always happen against Brazil in jedeh.
Listen Guys no disrespect to anyone
As much as I don’t like di maria or some of the old guard
I will always support Argentina no matter what
I had so many heartbroken moment with albicelestes team
Like Bolivia 6 1 penalties against Germany 2006
4 0 against Germany in 2010
2004 and 2007 cop America against Brazil
2015 and 2016 Copa against Chile
2018 against Croatia and France
The worst one 2014 final.
I don’t even support normal football club
I will support anyone who wears Argentina shirt
But it pains me still some old guards still around
Idealism is bad for development. Like if we want to develop the NT, we must do this and this even if it cost us this and this, when we can avoid that situation altogether.
For example, I saw a comment Scaloni should be manager so that Martino does not become. Why it have to be that way? Can’t we consider likes of Gallardo or Ariel Holan before being desperate?
I saw a comment thrashing from Brazil might be good for the lads. You loose prestige when you get thrashed. Opponents stop fearing you. Reputation is everything. Once lost, hard to gain back.
Why negative thought first? Why all of you think, presence of world class players bad for younger ones. Young players can learn a lot from their seniors, who played in biggest teams, played biggest matches. May be, Aguero can share his experience with Dybala how he become from a inconsistent super talent to one of the bests. May be Messi can teach the kids and Scaloni what the team did wrong in the WC’14 final. May be Romero can teach Rulli how to deliver in big games and big moments and how to remain cheerful in a penalty shootout. This is how it works everywhere, in every type of institution. And some of our seniors are still in top of their game.
Old guards rebelled due to Sampaoli. 15 different formation in 15 matches and scandal after scandal. They are unfortunate not to win any trophy. While we must move on, we also must show proper respect to them what they deserve.
Exactly. I would call few players of the old squad even if they just set at the bench. but again, I think Scaloni called few of them but they refused, for now.
IMO Some should come back, but Messi, not now.
Younger players always need experienced players in the group. simply to learn.
Like who? mate
I am not in a position to pick and choose, it’s up to the coach to decide. but in general, whether we like it or not, it will happen.
Ok mate one thing though…
There re not many old guards
Left anyway… I’m cool with messi
Aguero maybe banage… But not now
March time…. so they can play copa America because messi ,aguero
Definitely deserve to win the copa
With Argentina … one thing
I’m not convinced icardi still
Yes not many are left, and many spots have been taken by the younger generation. I would expect only very few to participate in Copa2019.
at the end it’s the coach’s decision, I will support what the coach decides, but will criticize him if it does not work. Our key to success is the coach first, then the players.
so far, Scaloni had been good in his team selection, I don’t expect him to drop a lot of this younger generation to make space for older players. I think He should not call any old squad player to next months matches, but again, if he does, maybe Only Aguero and Mercado because those are the positions we need right now.
You asked me which old squad players should be included in the NT right now, My answer is : NONE.
At this time we are still looking for the base of the team, then We can integrate few older players, ONLY if they are IN FORM and can give more than others.
Before WC 2002 Germany lost to England 1:5. That helped them to correct previous mistakes and reach final of WC. Team A thrashed by team B is unlikely to be thrashed again in next match between the teams. The youngsters will learn a lot playing against Brazil no matter what the result will be. I don’t want to see Messi doing it solely for them with hat trick as it was in past once.
This is really not good moment. Our boys needs to stabilise status of themselves first to believe they are important part of this and not little addition to Messi.
What? Germany played final because of their clown route not due to that trashing defeat, the easiest way ever, South Korea in semi-final really? USA in last8? Still the weakest Germany national team in the history, and the luckiest…their 2006, 2010 and mainly 2014 version of NT’s would trash that weak team
So what to say about Argentina 2014 under Sabella. Now you probably want to say our famous genearation was only lucky. To this day I heard from friends Argentine was the most lucky team of that WC.
Anyway after lost to England they improvet a lot things. Smart coach will always learn from defeats, it’s obvious. It final against Brazil Gemrnay have played good game, just like Argentina in 2014 after lucky previous games.
Sorry troll, you missed that
What the hell troll? You are more stupid than ever, futball analphabeta. Holland that killed the 2times EC champ and WC-champ spanish armada plus trashed Brazil in their home soil , Belgium golden generation, that won a bronze medal in this WC, the strongest Germany team since 1990, and one of the top3 in their history (74, 90, 2014), plus a massive Switzerland, who always hard to beat (vs Brazil in this WC), this route you compare to Paraguay, USA, cheating South Korea, Brazil against whom ofc they were zero chance. Cmon man biggest troll ever, leave this place idiot!!! Where was this great German side in EC2000 and in EC2004? Yes they were in the group stage LOL MR. TROLL
Belgium 4 years ago was not the same, you know it. Switzerland were not better than the Germans opponents from 2002. Winning Holland in penalties is impressive? And most importantly Argentina had sscore 1 goal (!!!) in last 4 games. Gemrnay at least left better impressions. That German team gad not crawled to final as Argentina.
How you watched Gernamy – Brazil final. Go and see how it looked till 1st goal of Brazil.
So what about our youngsters, troll? According to your standards they are not NT material. But reality just proves you wrong once again. YOu are masochist who like to make laughingstock of yourself.
“Old guards rebelled due to Sampaoli. 15 different formation in 15 matches and scandal after scandal. They are unfortunate not to win any trophy. While we must move on, we also must show proper respect to them what they deserve”.
They fail under Maradona, Batista, Martino, Bauza, Sampaoli – so it’s hard to say only Smapaoli to blame.
You say as if they had one or two chances under one coach only. But the fact is they are getting chances since 10 years and if anyone was not enough respected in last years it’s… youngsters that always were postponed in favour of the famous generation. They had enough chances.
Finally some of the oldies not really look as if they had any will to share their experience to youngsters. They look as if they wanted to get place in starting line up, then will keep that till the poor end.
Messi gen only fully began after Sabella took over. Zanetti, Burdisso, Milito, Cambiasso all played 2011 Copa. And reaching wc final is not failure, you have pointed it when you gave Germany 2002 example. In current international football arena, being competitive is success. This is how Germany and France won WC, they remained competitive for a long time, until finally they won it.
I mentioned about rebellion in WC’18, it never happened before. Martino mentioned it in recent interview. And yes, Sampaoli is solely responsible for that.
“And yes, Sampaoli is solely responsible for that”
Easy way of looking for scapegoat that take all responsibilities. The 2018 team was not better than Argentina 2022. They reached almost the same. I think Argentina 2002 looked better. But in both teams one thing was really clear: too many players past his best.
Every new coach have had to be the right one, the best possible option (If I remember correctlu you also though like that) Martino, Bauza, Smapaoli but it was from bad to worse. And you still want to think it’s just about coach.
I didn’t said their failed under Sabella. But it’s clear after 2014 the generation is descending lower and lower.
“They fail under Maradona, Batista, Martino, Bauza, Sampaoli – so it’s hard to say only Smapaoli to blame.”
Yep. They failed because the managers we absolute garbage.
Maradona, Bauza, Sampa were freaking awful. Tata was the only good manager. Failure lies mostly on mangers, not the players.
Really? All the coaches except Maradona suceed before taking Argentina. Don’t be naive. It’s impossible we are so unlucky to have so many bad coaches. After Martino second Copa everyone here called him worse coach that could happen to us… Some players really are overcocted.
Are you actually trying to defend Bauza here and blame the players instead? Same with Sampa, are you really blaming players and not bald fraud? If yes, then we will never see eye to eye. To me, it’s glarringly obvious fault lies on the coach.
Well said, can never explain this insanity
…”Idealism is bad for development. Like if we want to develop the NT, we must do this and this even if it cost us this and this, when we can avoid that situation altogether.”
I can’t say I agree with this. Idealism, if properly placed is fantastic for development. You could argue that, its one of the most important aspect for development. Yes, sure you cant be blinded by idealism, but sure thing that you need that.
For instance, if you look at the development of soccer, idealism plays a quintessential role. The Spaniards has their short passing, with movement in block idealism, which they cherish like a religion. It infact given them their most successful era in their national team. The German idealism of hard work and work like a machine given Germany literally everything. From their strong economy to their football. What you need is to not be so blind in idealism that you don’t see past your weaknesses.
What you did was take my portion of a comment and twisted it like a noodle lol.
Here I am listing why I actually want Scaloni as the coach and not Gallardo or Holan.
* Basically what is the difference between Gallardo and Scaloni? Have Gallardo ever showed that he is a tactical mastermind?
* What Holan can provide that Scaloni can not?
At the moment, neither Pochettino nor Simeone is going to work for us. So unless tou think you are going to gain a huge amount in tactical capacity and game manegership in any of Gallardo or Holan, what is the logical explanation to not keep the job of a guy who has been here in a very turbulent time and doing everything positive in a very positive way?
Idea of Messi & Kun back is exciting.
But it’s a bad option in my opinion. Especially against Brazil. That will again bring unwanted pressure on Messi again.
This Scaloni’s set up, Messi & Aguero will suit very well. Aguero is without any doubt the Best no 9 Argentine right now. I don’t see him declining in 2 years or so.
Messi, will not bring any burden to the new set up. He can fit in the right wing without affecting the newly built midfield around Lo Celso, Parades & Palacios.
I’m okay with Messi (& Kun) coming to this squad before Copa America. After this boys getting 3_4 International breaks to grow confidence, and as Messi said, there might be a permanent project and a solid team to which he can come in easily.
No Messi against BRAZIL.
i said it before and i will said it again.
AFA like all the country we are broke.
we have huge financial crisis.
President Macri bringing again the IMF here again.
Yesterday and almost every day we have demonstrations against our government decitions,
today we are speaking 1 dollar is 39,5 pesos.
so what do you want guys ?
Saudis give big money and they want Messi and our big names.
we need every dollar we can get.
WE WILL NOT LOSE THE WORLD CUP IF THEY PLAY ONE GAME IN ARABIA TO EARN MONEY !!!
CALM LITTLE GUYS OK ?
from November again things will return to normal.
If it was about just one game to earn some money for new project we already started I would not mind. Nothing at all. But I don’t believe the oldies will leave about the one special game. If they back for one game they will stay. There’s more fiendleis before Copa and AFA will want more money thanks to famous names sending alll over the world/. I don’t want that.
I don’t trust AFA.
Scaloni is part of AFA. Tapia was present in almost all training sessions in this tour. The primera is AFA, the clubs are AFA. Tapia and Grondona are not same person. So far, he has not given any major reason not to trust him. Rather in desperate moments in 2016, he was always with the NT even though he had no big authority. This is what Martino revealed in recent interview.
If that Happens then the momentum, the desire and the energy that was built in the mentality of this young generation of players to represent the NT will be totally wasted.
Transitioning from one generation to another should have been a “on-going” thing, but in our case it was not happening for the past 6 years or so, in this case The logical road says that We have to build a solid team of young generation first( because most of the old squad refused a call to the NT) , then fill in the weak spots with old squad players( if they are willing to do so), When I say Old Squad, I mean only the ones IN FORM at that moment of time. We do not want to repeat what happened to the Netherlands when they dropped all their big stars after 2014 or France after Zidane left in 2006. 4 years later and the Netherlands did not even qualify for the WC, France was a disgrace 4 years later in WC2010, Even now they are not that special, I know they are champions, but let’s face it, they were suppose to lose to Argentina if it wasn’t for the Baldy crazy tactics and formation. WE have no time to waste, you guys think that a transition phase of completely dropping the old squad will get us somewhere in WC2022, I doubt that very much, maybe in 2026, by then this young generation will be old and we are faced with the same dilemma again. WE should carry on with the young generation before WE call on any other player. I am sure If end up calling few of the old guards they will integrate into the group in no time.
I think Messi should write the AFA a check( like when he paid the security for 6 months) and tell them to go f.. themselves.
He is faced with a dilemma, He said he will come back only if there is a project in place and a descent permanent coach. If he comes back now, he would be contradicting his words. Unless there are things behind the scene we don’t know.
Dybala Icardi Lautaro Ascacibar Locelso Paredes Palacios Pity Martinez Pezella etc players needs time to settle..needs mental strength that they will play for long …if after every 2 or 3 matches the golden generations comes in that’s not good…
Don’t think Otamendi Dimaria Aguero will be fit for next Worldcup
I love Otamendi
I love dimaria
But that doesn’t mean they continues playing..
Focus on new set of players …
Nurturing G.Simeone/Lo celso or such young talents are Positive than recalling Aguero or Dimaria or Otamendi
Transitioning does mean they should stay till WC2022, They can easily just set at the bench to give the youngsters more confidence.
However I think Messi should refuse now also to respect more himself, to be respected more by AFA (that see in him cash cow) and to understand that he should just back only in really importnant moment in future when the team will really lack the element of genius.
First the youngsters team must be stabilised. It will take some time. They need quiet atmosphere around and not the excitement of King Comeback. They really need to feel they depend on themselves. What they show already is so pormising that it will be crime to disrupt the process that is already going on in right direction.
“However I think Messi should refuse now also to respect more himself, to be respected more by AFA (that see in him cash cow) and to understand that he should just back only in really importnant moment in future when the team will really lack the element of genius.”
I don’t think he said that. He just chose to be silent
“According to various sources, MESSI has refused a call-up and will not play for Argentina this year. Apparently, MESSI will not play until further notice. This can be until next year, the year after or even retirement. No one but MESSI knows.
Interim Argentina coach (and former team mate of MESSI’s at the 2006 FIFA World Cup) Lionel SCALONI reportedly called MESSI to speak with him and the Argentina captain told him “I appreciate it but no”. The reasons (per what is being reported) is because of the pain of the last World Cup as well as a lack of project and management within the team.”
I believe if Messi will back it will encourage other older players to do that. It scares me. Romero ok. We should test Lautaro Martinez rather than Aguero but still Aguero as the only one after Romero would be acceptable as he will not any more than striker waiting to feed him. Messi and Aguero together will bring to the team old divisions. On the pitch and behind they will go together aside from the rest as famous two friends while the little new boys will behave as fans of the two and not equal partners.
You know that I agree with you on most of what you write Bro. But You are talking as if the NT is a whore, any one can ride it. What do you mean it will encourage other older players to come back? where is the coach’s decision? WE need a coach to have the balls to exclude anyone he does not see fit. That’s why I always went for Gallardo. I don’t think Scaloni will allow that neither. Now the AFA might play it dirty and call the players for financial reasons, but then I will blame the players for accepting to come back. F… the AFA and the Media. I don’t think Messi will cover for anyone or encourage any player to come back, If he comes back now or later, it’s because he is hungry for a trophy with Argentina and he will put all that personal s..t that people accuses him of to rest.
Not again…..I can’t say much if it is the matter of money…..but I don’t want them… They are finished….why aren’t they taking retirement…..???…may be in copa America they can come for last time but surely not for now.. we r in rebuilding process….they shouldn’t interfere now
You mean Messi & Kun also ??
Yeah I mean messi and kun too….i m thinking about 2022 wc….messi will be 35 then….and kun will in his last legs….for me they all are finished….just give them a good farewell in next year coppa America Nd never look back then ..
yes may be aguero and messi is finished but still finished aguero is best striker in the premire leauge and fiished messi is the best player in the world. And even 35 years old messi or may be 39 will even be the best player of argentina , no one even be close to him.
The favorite debate is back! Let’s see one by one starting with easiest. Long post incoming haha! Here’s my opinion:
Salvio: He was a original choice and with his unfortunate injury we saw Scaloni try and play Meza and Pavon on the right. It’s quite possible Meza doesn’t even belong in the team let alone the right side, so Salvio and Pavon is the pair to choose there for winger. Now it is an absolute shame Roberto Pereyra is not even in the rumors. If a left sider like Meza can be experimented to play on right then someone as versatile as Pereyra is a no brainer to try there.
Anyways SALVIO VERDICT: In
Otamendi: Personally to me Otamendi does not bring anything to the table that Funes Mori does. There is a thought that Otamendi passing is getting better. But same can be said for Mori, especially with time and training. There is a question about experience which I will address later, but in Otamendi’s case the only experience he brings is how to get a yellow card quickly or get as close as possible to getting a red card.
OTAMENDI VERDICT: Out
Mercado: Saravia and Bustos are no doubt the #1 and #2 choice at RB in some order. However, amongst all the 3 lines of play it is possibly in the back four that you need at least one veteran to lean on. If not on the pitch at least in the training circle and the locker room. Mercado can provide this experience, along with Walter Samuel, for both full back and center back positions for at least for one year of transition. For this reason alone,
MERCADO VERDICT: In
Di Maria: Currently Di Maria is having a resurgence in France. But a strong reason for this is Neymar’s floating play from the left inwards takes up a lot of attention for the defense allowing DiMaria to operate a bit more freely. This won’t be so for the national team. Here Angel will have to absolutely hold down the left on his own. Time and time again who we have seen DiMaria does not thrive when marked and pressured and asked to hold. Furthermore Cervi and Pity have served well on the left, so if anything at best there is room for another sub there. Players like OCampos, Pereyra, Correa are better choices for that.
DIMARIA VERDICT: Out
Aguero: To any casual observer it is quite obvious that Aguero is among the top 5 forwards in the world. There are some things movement wise he does no Argentine forward does right now. For example he single handedly occupied the two Nigerian CBs so much the entire time he was on, that at the decisive time when he pulled both of them to the near post in panic, it left Rojo comfortably alone to score and take us to the world cup knockouts. This kind of stuff is not in someone like Icardi’s game yet. And though Icardi belongs in the team, so does Aguero.
Now there are points raised that for reasons of team psychology and mental energy wise he is someone not needed. I think this is rubbish.(A), aguero has never been known to be a locker room cancer and is such a professional even the English are amazed.(B), this is one of the main reasons you have a coach/manager. A coach who cannot mold a team to his mind set and lets the players free is not a good coach. Period. And sooner or later Scaloni will face these mental tests whether it is handling a Icardi, a Dybala or a Aguero. So lets see.
AGUERO VERDICT: In
Messi: Come on! This is a joke right? But if anyone is serious lets look at this tactically. Scaloni has shown his preference for the 4-1-2-3 (the advanced 4-1-4-1). Here Battaglia/Ascacibar sit deeper allowing allow LoCelso and Palacios to control game tempo. This is the formation in which Argentina looked structurally the soundest. However, the right side was a question mark. Dybala still has not shown an inclination to make this position his own at either the club or national level. Putting Messi here easily solves it and also allows to relieve pressure on Bustos/Saravia. Icardi or Aguero can serve as the point man here with Pity on the left. Dybala unfortunately gets the cut.
The other thing Scaloni tried was the very open 4-2-1-3 with Dybala in the hole as enganche and Parades+Battaglia doing cover work. Again Messi work well in the right here. It is LoCelso who gets the cut here.
Possibly the only issue would be coming up with a way to use LoCelso+Dybala+Messi+Icardi(Aguero) at the same time on the pitch. The best possibility would be 4-4-1-1 would Dybala as a nine-half behind Icardi(Aguero) and Messi wider. This would mean LoCelso having to play more defensively with Battaglia alongside him and you miss Parades.
In any case MESSI VERDICT: In (Can’t believe I have to type that)
ps: Messi does not have to come back to take the ball from Parades’s feet or any midfielders for heavens sake. He has had to do that in the past when our deep lying playmaking midfielders were shit.
Nice one mate
I want a deadly Messi with midfield service. Not too long ago: Banega’s long pass that Messi converted in the crucial match against Nigeria. In theory that’s the best way to play Messi in NT. Though, that’s not always true. Messi is not a patient one. He would drop deep as soon as our midfield is struggling. That’s wrong, he’d rather press the opponent’s defense instead. But hey, we are not going to change playing style of an established player, let alone the best player in the world, and arguably the best in the history.
Agree, Messi might be quiet mostly but he has no patience, he always wants to see action. Pep guardiola once described the best way to use Messi and he said:
“Give him the ball and keep him happy”
Messi sad to say, is not strong enough mentally, Messi gets frustrated when the midfield does find ways to feed him, and that’s why you always see him dropping deep to win the ball, not because he is selfish, but because the ball is his life, He escaped his genetic disorder through his childhood to playing football, I think it’s the most important part of his life. It’s bad but it’s true. He is getting older and we have to accept that he can not do things he used to on regular basis, Somehow he has to evolve into an engache so he can see more of the ball without depending on him to score all the time, puzzling, I know.
This AFA is a joke.
I will be disappointed if Messi comes back now. He should refuse to be the AFA Cash cow.
If he accepts to come back now he will come back so the AFA can make money to spend on the NT, which means he will come back because he has a desire to help his country. Meanwhile, he will be cursed and humiliated by many when they lose. I can understand calling on Aguero or Otamendi, But Messi coming back at this time is disruptive to the rebuilding process. Messi, please stay away for now.
If he refuses to come back I am sure the media will still criticize him for not playing and helping his country when they need him financially, This man’s extraordinary talent is his own curse. Poor Messi.
However I think Messi should refuse now to respect more himself, to be respected more by AFA (that see in him cash cow) and to understand that he should just back only in really importnant moment in future when the team will really lack the element of genius.
First the youngsters team must be stabilised. It will took some time. They need quiet atmosphere around and not the excitement of King Comeback. They really need to feel they depend on themselves.
AFA can’t be blamed always, because to run any organization proper financial background is needed. Neither Argentine Government can backup AFA, Nor the Superliga alone can backup AFA. So obviously there is only one solution, Names bring Money especially in non footballing nations Aguero, Messi, Di Maria etc r huge names (Becoz they r watching them week in week out on TV) most of them don’t even broadcast Argentine Primera Liga.
So it’s obvious, Got the point. But what r AFA going to do with all those money? Hire Tata Martino that’s the sad part. LOL.
He is not an elite coach by any means. Scaloni is not experienced or elite but neither was Joaquem Loew or Didier Deschamps hugely experienced when asked to Coach the NT.But Germany and France sticked with them for years, And now they won the Damn WC, Forget Euro or Copa or Confed Cup or Olympics, The bloody Damn WC.
Make no mistake about it, we r not even started now, we will loose matches may be by bigger margins, It will take time, 2 Matches won’t make these guys great. But we have no choice, And didn’t the historicals also got humiliated by Spain??? 6-1,Even if Brazil thrashes us it will defenitly help us in long run. Sometimes defeats helps us more than wins, especially if it’s friendlies then much better.
The Copa is what now all these Historicals looking for. We won’t win it with Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain, damn surely, neither can we win with youngsters (The new coach will not be able to implement his ideas within 1 or 2 matches) so it’s better to loose with youngsters than loosing with historicals.
IMO a thrashing by Brasil will accelerate Martino’s appointment… Everyone will say Scaloni was supposed to be a interim etc etc.
you know I completely agree with the words
Getting thrashed never helps.
Before WC 2002 Germany lost to England 1:5. That helped them to correct previous mistakes and reach final of WC. Team A thrashed by team B is unlikely to be thrashed again in next match between the teams. The youngsters will learn a lot playing against Brazil no matter what the result will be. I don’t want to see Messi doing it solely for them with hat trick as it was in past once.
Well we did not reach 2010 WC final, nor 2018 WC for sure.
What you saying is logic
I agree mostly, But guys :
Copa2019 is important, it’s in Brazil. It will give us a STRONG PUSH FORWARD to WC2022, WE can compete effectively in COPA2019 WITHOUT MOST OF THE OLD SQUAD. Why some guys here think WE can only win Copa 2019 with old guards? WE have good group of youngsters now who are eager to represent the country. I would say that a team that is made mostly of the younger players, along with Romero, Messi , Aguero and maybe Otamendi and Mercado, can win the Copa2019, even if they just set at the bench and used when needed, no need for anyone else.
The absolutely last thing I can imagine is we are at tournament and the oldies are only on the bench. Impossible. If they will be there they will play no matter we have better players (except Messi and Aguero)
a lot of great players did it, once they get older, they set at the bench, maybe play few minutes only. I expect maybe 5 or 6 players from the old squad at the most to participate in Copa2019 in one way or another.
Everyone called for Batista’s appointment after Spain game. He was interim too. Argument at that time was too that he knew young players, he won 2008 olympic gold etc. But his appointment proved to be failure.
2 friendly games are not sufficient to reach conclusion about any manager’s ability. But many of you has already reached that conclusion.
Let’s for argument shake, we reach conclusion that Scaloni is a sound manager. Then he is more needed in U-20 side. After Tocalli, we haven’t have a single good manager managing youth sides, as a result our result in U-20 has become poor. We, fans are still in desperate mode. Oh Scaloni bring some positive results?Lets give him the nt job so he can bring some trophies! Most of you will turn against him once result goes bad.
Personally, I believe Scaloni is a capable manager, this is why he must lead U-20 side which should be our priority at this moment.
No, I want Scaloni so that Tata cant be the coach.
Granted the sample size is very small, but the two cases aren’t remotely comparable. Batista’s Arg team was full of superstars who thrashed Spain. This Scaloni’s team scraped away a draw against a managerless Colombia. Its not because of the results, its the process and how he made the team play in a very short period of time.
And an U20 coach can be found with relative ease than a national team coach. If its really emergency than Aimar could be the enterim there untill a coach could be found for that project/team.
“No, I want Scaloni so that Tata cant be the coach.”
-Desperation and paranoia 😀
I don’t know about you, but I am pretty pretty desperate to not to have Tata Martino as our coach.
I would even have Sampaoli as the coach instead of that lazy fatboy
Many of you are out of reality.
Many of you are implying that AFA wants Messi back sothat they can earn more money for themselves, enjoy some luxury. The reality is AFA has no money. They could not pay Martino’s salary, they could not pay for the olympic team, they could not pay the damn security guards for 6 months until messi payed their salary. Argentina is not Germany or England in terms of economic capacity, if anyone needs reminder.
For youth teams,national teams, for the league, for footballing growth first of all you need is money, money AFA don’t have. For future we need young players to establish into the NT, and to run the NT AFA needs money, superstars bring money. One must keep the balance.
Also in terms of footballing sense, CF and RWF are two spots that are not convincing. Aguero and Messi are two world bests in their position. Messi is one of the best in history if anyone needs reminder. Their inclusion makes sense regardless of money need or not.
The problem is that we now associate Messi with NT’s failure in recent time to win a trophy. This is human nature. The inclusion of Aguero and Messi into XI will make our young midfielder’s and defender’s life a a lot easier while they mature and gel together.
This is not the ideal move from AFA, but this is what it is. Young players won’t be able to do a thing if there is no money to run the camp. I am not saying the situation is that bad right now, but solvency in an institution is needed for positive environment. Without positive environment, there will be no success.
I completely agree with your points @mafioso.
“For youth teams,national teams, for the league, for footballing growth first of all you need is money, money AFA don’t have”
Do you mean the income that will be generated in the friendlies will be used to invest in those rebuilding projects? If that is what you mean then you think that the AFA has ONLY one source of income which is WRONG. I think the problem is the corruption in that organization, not a shortage of money.
About Messi Coming Back:
Nobody associates the NT failures with Messi and every Argentina fan around the world knows how valuable he is to the team BUT the guy himself doesn’t want to be around the NT for a while. Why are they forcing him? Because of greediness and nothing more.
Scaloni must be trusted at least till the end of Copa and if he gets good results he deserves to be appointed as a permenant coach, why not!
Messi as individuality is best on the world no doubt. But football is not pure mathematic. One big player + good player may not be more than one good player + one good player if in the first pair the big player will not make good impact on his partner.
If it was only about individual Messi class then no doube he should be there, but it’s about his good or bad influence on the rest. Our youngsters needs to grow now without Mommy around.
Actually , Messi is also one of the best team players around. The current youngster has not played with him apart from Lo Celso and Tagliafico. So literally speaking, he had not been their Mommy.
India won Cricket world cup, when they went for major overhaul after 2007 WC disaster, but kept one old genius around named Sachin Tendulkar. He was similar to Messi too, quiet and reserved.
“The current youngster has not played with him apart from Lo Celso and Tagliafico. So literally speaking, he had not been their Mommy”
The more the new ones will take Messi as the legendary biggest one who just back to play with them and will talk about being so much honored to be part of his team. Then finally will look on the pitch just as his fans who want to pass him few balls.
This is really not good moment. Our boys needs to stabilise status of themselves first to believe they are important part of this and not little addition to Messi.
Then the kids are to blame for their weak identity. Not Messi to blame for being too shiny.
I agree that Messi deserve a break and our kids need time to develop the identity. But that must not be forever. If they cannot gain confidence to be a team mate rather than a Messi fan, they are not NT material
This is not really true we need to give show of famous oldies in Arabia to earn money and maintain somehow till next tournament. As Dadir have said, it may not be the only source of money.
They need to have other source than show up Messi in golden cage around the world.
Messi should refuse the proposition.
When Argentina played Nigeria in Bangladesh, for Argentina we had to pay close to 7-8 millions in USD, according to local newspapers. And for Nigeria, 3 times less.
Friendlies are not the only source of income, but it is a quick source of income, big income. AFA is not solvent. They have cash issue which never should have happened. But gross corruption from Grondona era, incompetence from Armando Perez board brought us current situation.
Tapia has tried things since takeover. He can have benefit of doubt.
Second that. Messi & Aguero need to come back for Copa. Post Copa 19 – it shld be only Messi from golden gen ( if he is motivated enough to continue )
But in upcoming friendlies – maximum chances should be given to Icardi, Simeone , Dybala, Pavon, ACorrea.
Such a sane and rationale opinion in a sea of madness.
I agree with your statement and that would be the ideal situation to spend the money on youth football and development, but can you trust AFA with that kind of money after years of corruption? Messi was in the national team for more than a decade appearing in friendlies and games, but AFA is still broke as ever when they should be at least decently financially stable and youth football growing. Maybe with this president, they will spend their $ more wisely, but I don’t trust them and Messi shouldn’t be used as a cash cow if AFA isn’t going to spend the $ in the right areas. There’s just too much corruption in Argentina.
I think Tapia is more honest than previous AFA boss. He is trying things which is apparent. Few months ago, he bought a property in Spain, so that AFA has a base in Europe, where camp can be hold for European players thus reducing travel cost, better utilization of time. A money well spent. Tapia may be stupid sometimes, but I don’t think he is evil and corrupt like Grondona was.
I thoroughly dislike Angeleci though.
now it is time to see how Lionel Scaloni handles the old players…..
one of the reason of our awful run for last couple of years is coaches losing the control of dressing room….and trying to build a team around messi…..
we saw what happened in russia……
i hope Lionel Scaloni give them hard time and no chance to get over his head……
Afa, fans, papers, etc,.. must decide what they want!
Do you want to win or to earn money?
If you want to earn money by playing the popular players in Arabia then don’t blame coaches, players, and don’t whine about losing just let us rename the team the Argentina Globetrotters.
Your aim is to earn money so your earn money and shut up and be happy.
If you want to win though you must accept that “name” is not always value. Don’t think about money and stars but think of a team who uses their stars for the good of the team, fields a balance team based on discipline, merit and accountability.
you must choose!
I have chosen the winning! that is what matters to me not ads and stars.
If we not win I am going to whine because winning counts for me not dollars!
Actually what I understood from this forum and following a couple of other Argentine newspapers is winning is not the ultimate goal for a lot of them.
Here is the hierarchy of “We want this”
– Most of them, I mean most of them want a Primera 11. Because Europeans (Argentine players who plays in Europe) are rich, they don’t connect with “us”, or aren’t as cult as us. They claim to be the only people on earth to watch the Primera and Copa Lubertadores, and a Primera eleven is the solution to the world’s problem, cure to cancer, world peace and hunger.
– This is the second category. They are the Boca and River and the Geande fanboys. These guys want players from their club, however old they are, and wherever they are playing right now. Doesn’t matter if they are playing in Europe, or Mexico or Argentina, but it has to that player. Example: Tevez, Gago, Aguero etc. For them Tevez must play because he will bring fight to the people, or Acuna must play because Racing always fights to death…etc.
– The third group is mostly foreign Argentine supporters. They want all European eleven and mostly famous players playing in Spain, England, and Germany (not even Italy because its suppsed to be shit).
– The fourth is not a group. Its only Kidulthood. Nowadays, he is “Baldy Sampaoli Hilardista.” He actually doesn’t know what he wants. It varies second to second.
Very, I mean very few Albiceleste fans follows the world soccer and WANTS to see this team win. What other successful teams are doing, how they are doing, how long they have been doing etc.
Football is a very international sport. It’s different from most sports because a lot of people and culture are connected to it. And they are changing and constantly evolving the way this game is being played. If you watch just one league, and if you want to just play like that without knowing what others are doing, then you are definitely going to miss out on developmnt and prosperity. Above all, the team needs to be put first and emotions and superstitions needs to be put to second category to win.
There’s a time for need-to-win (that is qualifiers and tournaments) and there’s a time of preparing to winning. Now it’s the second. We have not to win against Brazil, we must work with players that may win in future. We complained a lot about lack of friendlies. When we have them we will use to make of this Messi and co World Tour.
So Di Maria in > Meza out?
For that particular case, it’s not like we’re missing much. The first one is clumsy as hell with flashes of brilliance, Meza being literally out of its depth here.
Aguero in > Dybala out?
Highly provocative but frankly Dybala has yet to deliver the goods. Even a good half-time. Hilariously, the only good minutes Dybala had under the albiceleste were under Martino against Colombia, that game where Biglia (!) scored the winner.
He was also good v uruguay in his first game before the red card.
Messi should start playing as a midfield playmaker and Dybala infront of him just like Iniesta and Messi of Old Barca.
Sub: Romero, Armani
Foyth, Mori, Mammana, Salvio
Bataglia, Palacios, Paredes, Cervi
Pavon, Martinez L
Reserve: Pity, Simeone, Kanemann, Lanzini
We should be working with these group of players.
You must be kidding right?
He must be..
> Messi will not defend like you need a midfielder to do.
> Dybala, Aguero, Messi.. even Icardi are all low work rate players. Its suicide to field them without others running double time behind them. For every Riquelme you need a Cambiasso.. who is left defending? Locelso and Ascacibar.. they will be overrun by any hard working 4 man midfield.
Higuain is the best pressing forward. Unfortunately he has been cursed
Targetting Copa – i would look at this 23 member squad
Aguero – Messi
Pity Martinez – Palacios – LoCelso
Ascacibar ( or Battaglia)
Tagliafico – Otamendi – Pezella – Bustos
Fw – Icardi , Dybala , A Correa
Midfield – Cervi ( or Acuna) , Lanzini, Parades
Defense – Angileri , Funes Muri, Mammana
GK – Romero , Armani
Reserves – Saravia , Kannemann, Mussachio , Meza, Pavon, Simeone, L Martinez , Pererya
Post Copa19 – Only Messi & Romero stays from golden gen. Aguero & Otamendi clearly can contribute for 1 more year.
Pathetic in reality…but as a dream team it is fantastic….
3 or more genuine midfielder must start every game…
Messi Dybala Icardi Aguero all in same team is not good….
Messi is Messi not Iniesta or xavi…
I don’t like no one to join…
As it is matter of money AFA need Messi to join
As Messi joins then comes his friends- aguero dimaria etc etc etc …..
All of them will be above 34 in 4 years. For a central back or a goalkeeper its still OK but not for other positions. Even if the world cup took place next year, many would not have their place: Salvio is a hard worker but not creative enough and too predictable his push and run style, people may try to convert him to fullback but he is too old for that. True that Di Maria is playing quite well with his club now but his not compatible with NT. He needs that freedom to be able to switch from left to right and with strong DM covering him when he lost the ball, so that he can take risk. Otamendi has no football IQ and I guess he will lost his place with his club. Aguero is still world class, why not if Messi does not want to come back. I don’t think they can coexist because of age and their weak defensive contribution. Surprisingly, other than Messi, Mercado is the only one I feel still necessary to the team because of his profile.
If one day Messi comes back to his decision, he should play more as a right 9-half than a playmaker, with a “box to box” right fullback behind him and a strong forward for pressuring. On his opposite side, a playmaker/winger so that he won’t need to go deep too often and waste energy.
“Mercado is the only one I feel still necessary to the team because of his profile”
What kind of profile? Isn’t he the one we saw at the WC and Sevilla? I can’t trust that guy anymore. We have better options in RB and CB so there is no point having him on the squad once again.
Defensively he is shaky and he doesn’t contribute much to the attack. I believe Bustos attacks way better than him and Saravia does a better job than him in defense. If the team is playing with powerhouses then we can Saravia and against weak teams Bustos can be used.
The old guard (at least Me$$i and to a lesser extent Aguero) is the one that brings money… It’s that simple.
AFA needs money and most likely a lot.
A lot of people do not consider that big fact.Money. Most sophisticated car will stop running if you can’t buy the fuel. Easiest way to make money for AFA is Messi. People can’t digest the fact.
If I was Messi I’d say HELL NO to milking friendly matches
Aguero yes because he is an inform player which he also showed in the WC when given chance. We did not have the coach so do not only blame the players. Otamendi maybe ok because we cannot completely get rid off everyone and start a new team. Messi is Messi he ll still be the best player at 35 maybe even 39. No questions asked. We need 2/3 old players in the team. But Mercado and Dimaria should quit now. We have a good young midfield. Otamendi should quit after copa but its good to have him in def with young and fast defenders, Messi should start playing in the midfield and Aguero with Incardi and Dybala. Sounds good to me but no one else beside these 3.
@Ebo you were right….. I see your point now
Argentina copa America 11
Rulli- RB Pazella otamendi tagliafico – lo Celso Ascaliber Parades- Messi Dybala – Aguero Bench: Romero F.Mori Kaneman Batigala Benega Dimaria icardi simeone Palacio pity Martinez, winning copa is 100% certain
many here barking Argentina must drop old guards to build a new team. In what logic says building a new team means drop inform players from the squad. Cervi is not better than Dimaria so as a bench warmer Dimaria should be in the squad. My question is not select players on the basis of past and select inform players only
only messi Aguero icardi and Dybala are world class from Argentina rest of all average to farmers
Palacio is future superstar, Rulli has potential to be the best where lo celso and parades decent
WTH is going on with AFA!!! The only one that should return is Messi that also after the Copa for the qualifiers. Aguero , Otamendi and Dimaria they can’t play in the WC 2022 , they will be too old. Messi will be of the same age but you can’t compare Messi’s fitness with theirs. One of the major reason Messi and Ronaldo have been dominating the world football for last decade is because of their supreme fitness.
The only veterans I would bring for this Copa America 2019 would be Aguero, Messi and Romero.
No other organisation can mess things like AFA. They can start a university teaching how to screw things up. They are doing this for the Saudi dollars. One step forward and several steps backwards. I hope the kid’s^ morale is not destroyed. There are bound to be 2 groups in the team. What will happen to Icardi Lo Celso and Dybala. I shudder to think.
WTF… After long time something good is happening to Argentine football. And here we go Di Maria, Aguero again??? Disgusting.
There is real insanity in AFA management. Money greed make them biggest hostile of Argentina future.
On Arabian Peninsula want to pay a lot for having show with Neymar and Messi, Aguero, Di Maria, Otamendi, Romero, Banega, Mercado and others.
But now the one thing is Argentina developement and another is Messi Golden Goose World Tour.
If Afa want to make more money they should organize two NT. The real one and the second of OLD BOYS with famous names. Believe me, people all over the world that are not really up to date with Argentina football will pay a lot to watch still the most well known names including: Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, Banega, Biglia, Mascherano, Gago, Rojo, Zabaleta, Otamendi, Enzo, Demichelis, Romero, Maxi Rodriguez and few others.
The youngsters team from last two matches is not really attractive for people in non-football countries.
If messi and aguero wont play then argentina will be ripped apart by brazil with 6-0 or 7-0 most humiliating defeat in the history of argentina brazil is not gautemala or columbia. Still we dont have a good no 9 except aguero Icardi cant score fot NT , simeone still not that level may be in future and lautaro is still developing.So atleat messi and aguero must continue.
Argentina will not lose to Brazil 7-0 or 6-0
Remember these words, even if Messi does not play.
I even back them up to be competitive in this match next month.
Give the young players time to gel well and produce magic, it can’t happen after 2 friendlies. This is our project for 2022, Messi- Aguero, Diva, etc will be in their 35 or 34 of age. So it’s pointless to bring them back again to save us in a useless friendlies while be missed in the next world cup. Their last chance was Russia where they produced the worst world cup campaign in recent years.
Let go oldies, keep your dignity and call it retirement. Enough is enough!
Even at age 35, Messi could still be our best player.
You most not have watched the world cup if think it’s the players fault
AFA is totally ill and viscious organization. They are proobing moods all the time to pleasure fans but only when it’s convenient – call up the young players when oldies want anyway take a break after lost WC. But when it’s coming the opportunity of making good money on Arabian Peninsula they will support pundits and journalists of Ole or TycSports to make noise about oldies, to ask players in interviews about Messi (even if players are not concern with him now at all as they had real pleasure with taking NT burden) and so on to make it appear people want come back of oldies. No, people don’t want the oldies.
Romero ok but do we really need Otamendi?
He never show the level of club in NT. He will not be better than Funes Mori. Otamendi was part of disaster against Spain with poor performance. He was not solid on WC. Pezzella and Funes Mori have played together for the first/second time and they looked really solid. Funes More just came back after injury.
Do you really want drop one of Pezzella/Funes Mori and start again with building understanding.
Our defence didn’t conceeded a goal in the 2 games playing together for the first time. I felt comfort with the defense. Most of the game Colombia didn’t created any good opportunities.
I bet if Otamendi was there there would be some horrible moments as it was on WC and friendlies before. Otamendi is just paper tiger.
It’s not really worth to start once again with setting defense. Not to mention Otamendi in december 2022 will be almost 35.
It’s true mate there is nothing especial about otamendi but
He is a friend of aguero and who is aguero’s friend Messi
This is the biggest corruption in football I can’t wait till those old guard retired….
if Aguero is messi friend then why Aguero wasn’t starter for Argentina???
aguero may be messi’s friend but he is still best striker in the world.
he is way better than useless icardi,simeone and lautaro
Yes totally agreed on Otamendi. I remember he wasted time by kicking the ball out during the last minutes against France because he was unhappy with the referee’s decision. I cannot trust this guy. He has developed good passing skill but seems Guardiola prefers Laporte to him now.
the last 2 WCQs Columbia-Argentina 0:1 Argentina-Columbia 3:0 with James, Rodriguez, Columbia without him half the team, and Columbia in friendlies half the team too, and we cannot produce one good chance…plus a Haiti or Bangladesh caliber opponent, when will you weak up?
i will still bet on Otamendi till Copa19. He has an year more . Apart from his temperament – he clearly is our best CB since Walter Samuels . Also really developed his ball playing skills under Guardiola. He is 100% deserving to be one of the 4 CBs in 23 member squad for Copa 19. for current friendlies – i agree we should try newbies & Funes Muri for them to settle faster.
Ignore this cry baby troll, unbelievable, at least for 5 years he does the same, and still here, pathetic troll, Oldies cmon we saw Icardi, Dybala, Meza (LOL), even Cervi are useless atm so go and fuck with your amateur Mezas idiot. The same weak cry baby mentality than Dybalas, the polish origin…Dybala and Icardi combined in 900 mins zero goals, stop cryin…so now Gonzalo Martinez is your new Meza idiot, the guy is nothing special, ordinary, not incisive, not unpredictable, still in Primera…
According to your none of the players from last games should be NT material. hahaha. And they have played much more attractive football than your oldies. Playing together FOR THE FIRST/SECOND TIMES!!!!!! What about Palacios, Pity, Talgliafico, Saravia, Bustos, Battaglia, Armani, Ascacibar, Paredes, Pezzella, Funes Mori, Simeone, RUlli ? According to your standards they are not NT material becuase either local league farmers or small European clubs players and that means for you mediocree.
You want to reduce all that to Meza? He is just one of many players are now in NT I was talking about. And almost all they were good in the friendlies. How do you want fight them now? They makes you wrong, troll. It’s over and your frustration is best prove.
Your oldies failed in WC . They barely make group stage. Now you are wrong the second time. We know that already – Argentina have the young potentiall. You made fool of yourself.
They failed because of Sampaoli tactics (without centre forward, our only world class section) and imbecile Tagliafico (+very bad goalkeepin), the guy made from Mbappe the best player of the universe, thank you Mr. Nobody, 2 goals always in nowhere’s land+ Mbappe penalty he was in his dream world again,+ that horrible luft, before the crucial Pavard’s goal what changed the match dynamics completely+France is sky high the best team of the world, and of course Argentina was the only one who strenghten their life, this France would beat our young Argentina team easily by 5:0 minimum. Stop trollin idiot!!!
Yeah, Tagliafico is your another great prediction. He is already our captain and you’ve said not olng ago he is mediocree player of local league. Nowhere near NT level.
Yeah, your oldies lost just because of Sampaoli. Really? so what about the other coaches when they were also poor.
Here we go again !!!
The Friends Club will open soon with all alliances crap, alliances and poor performances even against the weakest teams. When will they ever retire? I mean seriously, do they have life time contracts?
I don’t want Messi and AGuero together once again. I don’t want anyone of them now but if I could choose then better to take Aguero as his impact on the rest will not be so huge. Messi will turned around our midfield once again. As I said before I don’t see Paredes giving the fine long passes with Messi around. Messi will drop back to take of the playmaking responsibility from both Paredes and Lo Celso.
If both Messi and Aguero will back there will be again the old couple of friends behind pitch that will be probably going together aside from rest I think. Moreover the friendship from behind pitch never translated really good to on game understanding. There was goal against France, ok. But really we were usually disappointed by alleged chemistry between the two.
They will probably to some degree looking down on the rest – things that will not happen if only one of them will back.
I believe whole the young group may show good chemistry within some time and build special kind of brotherhood with few friendlies more. They know they are young, they know they are begins of something new, part of something fresh. A lot of them debuted now together. The rest also is at the beginnings. It’s better to leave them together with the fresh mentality of pioneers, NEW WAVE and they will understand each other best. No need to mix them with mentality of players like Otamendi or Aguero, players that lost too much with NT. It’s better not to spoil the youngsters showing them players who are feeling as if they had guaranteed place in NT. We need fighting group with new spirit.
Messi had to drop back in the past because our shit midield. With Paredes long balls and vertical passing, and Lo Celso and Palacios with 1-2s, Messi can stay more upfront
This is theory I heard many times but as far it never happened in reality. I don’t see really Messi waiting humbly on forwards line for passes from Paredes or Lo Celso. It’s his NT instinct to drop and take the initiative from midfielders. On the other hand people say: Messi when advanced in years and not that fast as once should back to NT to play the playmaker role. So how Paredes or Lo Celso will do that?
I really don’t see ATM Messi come back without negative impact on our creative midfielders. The creativness of midfielders was just freed after years of being benumb and we want to mess up the things again.
“This is theory I heard many times but as far it never happened in reality”
Because the midfield has been shit for so long. So refresshing to see this group. We would have gone further in the WC if it were Messi + Aguero upfront with Palacios + Paredes + Lo Celso + and Battaglia or Ascacibar in the mid.
“y don’t see ATM Messi come back without negative impact on our creative midfielders. The creativeness of midfielders was just freed after years of being benumb and we want to mess up the things again.”
The very problem you have is up to the coach to solve. you don’t exclude messi because other players are bewildered. You find a coach that will marry everything together. Even Messi as ATM would be insane. No one can pass or has his vision – like iniesta or pirlo. Again, its up the coach to make sure players are not “numb”, instead of sacrificing the best player of all time.
When Pastore played in the Copa America as our 10, one of Messi, Di maria, Higuain always dropped back and took the ball from his feet.
then we were outnumbred in attack because our players were too deep.
When we defended all those players never dropped deep.
It should be let the midfield do their job and position yourself there up front.
It should be drop deep when the opponent attack and help on defense.
If those players don’t let the midfield do their job and they will not then we are going on to lose on purpose.
I recall this incidence differently.
When Pastore was playing, he was always, I mean almost always playing as a very advanced player and was never in midfield. That was never going to work with Messi on the pitch. Also, that’s unnecessary.
Moreover, in club level too, if you watch him play and his heatmap, you would see he always stays at the 3/4 space above your CMs. He just never stays deep.
So it is very normal that if you play Pastore with Messi, or Dybala their spacing will collide. Its like playing two Özil together. NEVER going to work, and no coach will try that.
Very true. On the other hand, I also notice that Messi loves to drop deep even in Barca. That’s nature of his game after Xavi retired. Only Xavi was able to make the play when Messi was in the pitch, not even Iniesta. Probably it’s about influence?
Agree, If I have to choose, Aguero ok, Messi not now.
I had enough with this old guard
I don’t get it really why would you need di maria?
We already have better players than him on his position
Pity martinez did in 2 match what di maria couldn’t do
For years I swear will pick any player over di maria
I knew if Messi wants to come back .
He will come with a package that is why I don’t Messi
To come back. Is not fair this old guard had thier chancs
Let them stay thier clubs and score goals…..
Can anyone please explain for me why we need the old guard
For me it doesn’t make sense.
Argentina football needs renovation not f… di maria and Co
Cervi + Simeone vs Aguero + Messi and you need an explanation?
Simeone isn’t good and we’re not winning anything with him leading the attack. Sorry, hes not the guy. Still have hope for Icardi and Martinez though.
Give me break mate those guys just play game and half
For me cervi is better than di maria
I don’t have any doubt simeone will be especial player
How many years aguero, di maria been playing?
Is not fair to compare… Any real Argentina fan
Want to see new blood not same old players again and again
I’ve watched Simeone in league and Aguero is vastly better. Maybe one day Simeone will shine but that’s isn’t reality today. And to correct you, any REAL Argetina fan wants to see success whether old or new blood is there.
Messi + Aguero and you get biglia and masche free
I am getting the familiar feeling of sinking again. These oldies will not leave. Live and let die seems to be their motive. At this rate Masch and Biglia will come out of retirement. Double pivot will be back. Friends club is getting rebirth. God please do something
Aguero is miles ahead of Simeone. Simeone is slow and small so hes unable to hold the ball or makes quick runs behind defenders. I don’t like him right now. Icardi not showing much but still hoping he’ll shine.
Arg with Cervi – Simeone
Arg with Aguero – Messi
Hmmmm, wonder which group is more threatening and will perform better?? So hard to pick /s The difference is talent is laughable.
simeone is 6cm taller than aguero! he is good with the head thats why we played so many crosses against Guatemala! he is qucik and technically very skilled, which aguero also is. but i pick simeone any day over aguero! he let us down so many times its over! icardi has to show more for the NT thats true but he still is our future with simeone!
We’re are not taking about the same Simeone if you think he’s quick and technically skilled. It’s the opposite. He’s sliow and unable to beat defenders with dribbling or quick runs behind. Simeone is a penalty box predator. I don’t see him taking shots outside the box, dribbling past defenders, or making quick runs. Aguero on the other hand, does it all. I’d bet even Aguero beats him in headers despite being 6cm shorter
I’d prefer Aguero + Messi than Cervi + Simeone
This is not wine
This is football
Keep the young blood
Argentina is better with young midfield
To be fair Messi and Aguero should return ( as i can see some shortcomings in their positions ). If Di Maria returns, ill surely be super exasperated by the coaches.
Blame Meza for being so bad…
Yup i agree. Meza seemed so out of place. Messi would fit in perfectly on the right side where he loves cutting inside to create danger.
except for messi i dont want to see one single fucker of the old guard once again! they can go to hell!
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