Rodrigo de Paul with a brilliant run as he scored for Udinese in their 1-1 draw vs. Bologna.
De Paul managed goal number 9 of the season, his first since scoring twice back in April vs. Crotone. It was a great individual run by a player who has become a pillar in the Argentine midfield for coach Lionel Scaloni.
The 26 year old would get to the loose ball in midfield, skip passed one player, drive into the penalty area and an outside of the foot shot would beat the goalkeeper for the first goal of the match. In addition to de Paul, Juan Musso, Nahuel Molina and Roberto Pereyra also started the match for Udinese.
For Bologna, it was 35 year old Rodrigo Palacio who was the only Argentine in the squad.
If I remember correctly, Gonzalo’s issue was Messi dependence as opposed to Messi himself per se. Passing the ball to Messi all the time where there might have been better options, or Messi dropping very deep to get the ball, I would say any thinking fan has to acknowledge that that was a problem. Now that our midfield improved we can hopefully play better as a team.
Gonzalo was an oldie “hater” by definition, no question.
The guy couldn’t admit that Masche, Aguero, Di Maria, Messi were a “golden generation”. He kept calling them Bronze and Silver generation just to talk shit. The dude literally made up his own definition of the term “golden generation” just to suit his own hater option. Another example, he hated them so much he couldn’t even praise Di Maria for the that worldy goal against France. i remember his saying it was lucky or easy or some bullshit.
To your point, there is nothing wrong with calling out Messidependencia (which was a massive problem) but he didn’t just do that…
“The dude literally made up his own definition of the term “golden generation” just to suit his own hater option”.
That’s incredible violence on proper meaning of words. White is white. Black is black. Golden is golden by definition. Silver is silver by definition. Silver is not golden. Silver x 3 or silver x 4 cannot make even 1 golden. Is it clear? Golden generation is that of 1978 and 1986 no other. Argentina football story did not began in 2000.
Hilarious response coming from Troll Gonzalo. 🙂
> That’s incredible violence on proper meaning of words.
What on earth does this even mean?
> White is white. Black is black. Golden is golden by definition
Thank you. Does purple = purple as well?
Here’s a pro tip. The term does not refer to the metal of the trophies won. If it were based on such a silly definition, then all countries who havent won the WC could never refer to their team as GOLDEN GEN. Are you really trying to argue that Netherland or Belgium have never had a Golden Gen of players?
i’ll tell you what, take 30 seconds out of your busy day to search for the definition and come back with a response. ill wait..
You are missing crucial relative context on discerning silver from golden generations depending on different situations. The reason why some Belgium generation may claim to be “golden generation” without winning a title actually is precisely that no other Belgium generation went so far. That is “golden” taken figuratively. However this is not Messi’s generation case as long as there are other teams in albicelestes history that took the gold 2 times on World Cup and 14 times on Copa America. Either you are assuming unjustifiably kind of modern-centric perspective, devaluating past titles or simply unaware of what this whire-blue team heritage is.
And do not panic, man. I don’t think Gonzalo is going back.
In fact no other generation as of Messi suits better the “silver” brand for all the silver titles.
All you’re doing is “moving the goal post” and making up your own definition. you truly are gonzalos ghost. Since you cannot take 30 seconds out of your day to look up the definition, here’s the definition that i mostly see.
“to refer to a group of skillful soccer, rugby, etc. players of similar ages who achieve success or are expected to achieve success for their country”
Can you say Masche, Messi, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain don’t fit the bill? They were all similar ages, world class players that were EXPECTED to WIN. Argentina were always FAVORITES during their reign. They also did better than the previous decades.
Heres an absurd example to help my point. Suppose in 100 years, by some miracle this world is gifted with the reincarnation of our best players – new Maradona, New Batigol, New Messi, New Ayala, New Zanetta, New Passarella, new whoever is in your all time list all born within few years of each other. I’m not talking about “might be gods or would turn into gods”. Im talking about the REAL DEAL – all these players are absolutely destroying opposition and are widely regarded as the WORLDS BEST, hands down. Now imagine they didn’t win the WC, i would 100% say they are A golden generation. National teams can have multiple golden generations and NO not all need the the gold trophy, more about expectations than anything.
you know, if you’re trolling me..then hats off to you. well done, sir 🙂
Dear ddr1123
I couldn’t reply to your comment yesterday in the previous thread, so i try to answer you the best possible way i can.
How can i personally define the term “world class”? Well, that is a very difficult question, at least for my sight, knowledge and understanding but because, on the top of it, i would like to give you an answer as much sincere as i can, i honestly don’t know exactly how to define this term nowadays! I will explain myself:
I am old enough and i am saying that i grew up witnessing monsters, legends and phenomenoms of players such as Batistuta, Caniggia, Redondo, Crespo, Riquelme and many others from Argentina, as well as many others worldwide such as Henry, Ronaldo the Brazilian, Van Basten, Shevchenko, Klinsman, Boban and i am just talking abour strikers now. All the above were world class to me. What i am trying to say, is that in my humble opinion, individual level of players nowadays is way to inferior to the aforementioned ones, therefore it is more difficult to acknowledge a player as world class today, when the individual level is dropped significantly in comparison to the past, at least in my sight of view.
However, i agree with you that Mbappe could be considered as world class and the same goes for De Bruyne too, but as i said, i think the same about De Paul too. In the end, in today’s football, hype for a player is created more because of marketing issues than merit, that is why i am very cautious like you, when using the term “world class”, not only for our players but for every player worldwide.
All in all, i don’t feel the mood really to post frequently nowadays, but i really enjoyed that i did it with you, because i always try to enjoy and respect constructive conversations like the one we had together sir!
Cheers!
Messi, Di Maria and Aguero are the only world class players that are still in activity. The rest are good, decent players but not world class or not yet. But it’s totally fine to me, remember in 86, there was no phenomenal player except Diego. I believe in this new national team, which is quite similar to 86, may just need to add 1 or 2 talents like Buendia and Lisandro Martinez.
Yh I agree Messi, Aguero and di maria
Are only world class players in the nt in this moment having said that i would take Ocampos, Joaquín Correa and nico gonzalez over di maria any day i also take Lautaro over Aguero.
Having world class players doesn’t guarantee success.
Ocampus over Di Maria, have you seen Di Maria in Champion league or not. Di Maria is also world class player.
Have you seen Di maria in national team after 2016 or not?
Di maria is one world class player that his days passed.
what he is doing for his club is irrelevant. we try build new team and Di maria is not in age to build any future.
Di Maria is in phenomenal form right now he should be used by Argentina. Ocampus is not in form,this season Ocampus is flop.There are many aging players you will see as starter in Euro and in world cup. After 2016 Di Maria was off form but right now he is phenomenal so deserve his chance
Waveride,
I like the discussion. It is indeed very different these days. I might be of the same age group of you or may be even older 🙂
I remember players like Maldini, Baresi, Puyol, Cafu and many others who were at the top of the game at some point. I enjoyed their craft of their game and wished they were Argentine. We had many great players too.
These days, we start throwing names as world class and NT material etc. That frustrates me. I am happy we have many talented kids, but let them achieve something for themselves and for the nation before giving them the crown. So a time factor there. Other is lack of objectivity. To say, someone like Lo Celso is same as Modric is a stretch for me and disrespect for the midfielder. Both played at Spurs, lets take it as a starting point. Now Lo Celso is going to win 3 CLs and also Balon Dor. Lets wait and see. I will be the happiest.
Gonzalo was true fan of Argentina nt
hating messi? I’m not sure about that
But af course he had his opinion about him
like any other player and he wasn’t a lone in tha matter. I too not biggest messi fan is that make me Less Argentina fan only low minded person will think such thing.
As csabalala he used be biggest critical for up coming young talents especially those was playing in super league at that time however Lately csabalala became
Far more rational and positive which very welcome Look no one know which will player will turn out to be biggest hit or flop we only discuss or have rational arguments as example I used say leo parades is too good To play Russian league and I guessed he will move top 5 leagues in Europe even when he was having difficulty time at pgs I believed he will come good
Because the talent he has same for lanzini I thought he would move big club but injury prevente him moving Liverpool. My point is we can all guess some might make to the top and some might not.
Personally I won’t critisise anyone why would they got wrong thier perdition unless it’s Personal dislike towards for the players.
@ Csabalala
Ok I have to interject here, if my memory serves me correctly Gonzalo praised Lautaro and never favored Gaich over him while you called him, and I quote “a perspective bench warmer” at the beginning of last season.
Gonzalo praised Ascacibar and so have I and I will continue to do so because I still think the kid has world class potential.
Paredes has worked his way up at PSG ever since last year’s CL match against Atalanta and now he is a starter for the team.
“Celso mine”, really? Since when? I remember damn well how you constantly dissed Celso even when he was kicking ass in Betis and last season for Spurs (the 2nd half of the season).
Lanzini was a big success in his first 2 seasons for Westham and then injuries caught up with him and Gonzalo was the only one who thought he would succeed in europe since the rest of us ignored the kid because he came into the EPL from the gulf.
Look Csabalala you have adjusted your attitude and have become far more positive and productive on this board and we all appreciate it but please don’t pretend like you’ve always got it right while Gonzalo got it wrong, no one can accurately predict which player will succeed and which won’t because it’s based on multiple factors hence why we all have made huge errors when it comes to judging players, it happens.
Who would’ve thought that the likes of De Paul, Emi Buendia, Emi Martinez and C.Romero would become such fantastic players, non of us have but it happened and that’s the beauty of sports, you never know who is gonna pop up and get us all excited.
Yes I always liked talented players (and not like mediocre), but dont love if the big talent underperforming. This is the case of Lo Celso and a lot more argentines. World class talent, but is he the new De Bruyne or Modric, Kroos, Kimmich, Iniesta or Veron etc.? Hell no, the guy still fight for his place in a bigger club, and shows nothing extraordinary, good but not great. Lautaro Martinez, Lo Celso, Thiago Almada, even Dybala all need step up to fullify their potentials.
Absolutely, Celso at this moment is under-performing that’s for sure and needs to step it up, but the Celso that was playing for PSG was very good while the Celso that played for Betis and Spurs (the 2nd half of last season) was world class and every bit as good as any of the midfielders you mentioned but inorder for him to be truly compared to them overall he needs to repeat the season he had at Betis with consistency, that’s how history remembers world class players. Form is temporary while class is permanent.
Well, Gonzalo might have listed 200 or even 500. How does that disqualify the talent pool from being deemed genuine and promising? He was a true fan and by his love for the tradition and the unparalleled legacy it has, he’d every right to believe so. The truth is just that argentine youth is not being promoted and projected the way we wish these days much owing to the economic stagnation the country has been facing for years now. I’m pretty sure that we’ve more talents in the offing, much more compared to any other footballing nation on the planet, even more so with good number of talents emerging in even the not-so-strong wingback/fullback positions. Also if keen enough, one’d easily sense that emerging talents in midfield are coming in all sizes and shapes – more varied B2Bs and hybrid holes as opposed to creative No.10s / enganche alone in the past. I for one, not just as a fan but also a neutral perceiver of the developments firmly believe that we will start to witness and enjoy the fruits of these merits soon enough…
a true fan and a true hater of the much talented and much better “old” generation, he cried all over the WC2014 and Copa 16 (when ARG played dream football), Copa 15 too ofc, and was very happy to lose those finals (with very bad luck) , cause he said that nothing works properly with these players. Clown. And ofc the biggest Messi hater that ive ever seen here.
I don’t think anyone here would approve of your statement about Gonzalo being a Messi-hater. Yes, he was against all those psuedo-fans who’d only bother about Messi and his individual glories and remain least concerned about Argentina. That was and will remain unacceptable to any true fan. But for pseudo fans – yes, they could even switch their alliance and obligation if Messi’d switch to play for another nation. Nothing wrong to be a NT fan just for the sake of Messi, but praising Messi and belittling NT as a whole is very much unbecoming of a fan!
ha ha ha now you remind me. just because i make critics to Messi in past i was attacked too from some posters 🙂 ha ha i was accused as Messi hater as Ronaldo fan and even more that i am Brasil fan ha ha.
in my case i was smile from my heart reading those posts 🙂
wonderful post. those kind of posts i am happy to read. really pleasure.
Be sure Sabarish Menon that exists thousands kids. Gonzalo was one person with deep knowledge about Argentina football players production industry. Even him he was listed small number of talents.
Be sure that from La Quiaca in north till Ushuaia in south and from Cristo Redentor en Cordillera de los Andes in west till Mar del Plata in east exist thousands childrens that playing football they have big talent and dream one day succed to be inside the list with the small number of the lucky ones that will have ONE CHANCE to catch their dreams.
the majority of those children WILL NEVER succed their dream and nobody will learn about them EVER outside Argentina (or even inside Argentina) BUT do you know something Sabarish Menon? this is the destiny of Atgentine football. Honestly i don t care about the posts of those don t have respect for the young players back home. No problem.
FOR ME it is enough that every damn time happened to pass outside one small football pitch or cross in neiborhoods from one dry open area full of children and i am seeing them playing football I AM SEEING things outstanding and that MAKE ME FEEL SO DAMN PROUD and make me thinking that we will be forever among the top of the world. i am seeing the future bright and full me with so positive emotions.
i wish you could see what i am seeing. then you will just smile with your heart.
for our haters i just don t give a damn.
Yes my friend cox4. I have got great hope on these children. Their style of play which used to be just skill-oriented in the past have also changed to a hybrid of skill and adaptability. Unfortunately one may not be able to see that reflecting on LPF though as top flight is being subjected to procedural changes every now and then. Once we manage to fix a permanent procedure for the top flight(including primera nacional and torneo federal), things will start flowing for sure…
I also wish players like Anibal Moreno, Cristian Ferreira, Enzo Fernandez managed to emigrate to Europe because they’re kind of rotting in Argentina. These are sureshot names for European success. Players like Orellano, Garayalde, Santiago Simon etc. cam remain there for 1-2 years more.
yes true. i hope things go as we want about them. in same time you remind me one of the biggest issues we face about our talents.
i call it “the correct timing”. in the last 5-6 years 7 or 8 to 10 of players that leave Argentina they are going in Europe in wrong timing. they rush to leave because the money without they are really ready for that step. as result we have much failures to reach what we desire. Personally i am strongly against the players leave Argentina earlier than when they should and i am strongly against those believe that one child should leave to Europe for be good player. the last kind of thinking is from people don t understand about football.
When we talk about timing, Lautaro’s was almost perfect. Dybala went straight from Instituto(primera b). Barco would have been a sensation now if he’d moved to Italy last year at least. I’m worried about few talents getting lost in Brazil. Sarrafiore was an exciting youngster but even Coudet didn’t count him in while at Inter do Brasil. These players should stay at home for 2-3 years(unless they’re bought right from the clubs’ reserves or junior divisions)and then emigrate.
I agree with your point cox about the correct timing which relates to my post below. Some people want us to have vlahovics in Europe when we have them in South America, gaining experience and growing at a proper pace (apparently they don’t exist then). Some players go too fast and get injured or are ignored. Kind of like Maxi Romero at PSV. An example of this year is Sarmiento, time will tell if going to the Man City academy will have been a good idea. An ideal age to leave is no less than 20, preferably 21-22. They also have to make the right moves unlike Barco.
Imagine athletico draw vs sociedad.
And Barca and real win all their games.
3 of them will finish same points but real win the title.
It will be a historical season 😂
In 2013 to 2020… Gonzalo mentioned atleast 200 young + primera division players who those qualified to be a national team materials. 😂😂😂
I have been reading some of the discussions about our talent and world class players, also keeping in mind some of the similar discussions from before. Here are some patterns I’ve seen:
1. People fail to take into consideration some factors that make Argentinian talent different from European talent
2. People may be inconsistent with how they define world class
3. People like to compare individual players with individual players
Some people seem to like to define our talent solely on if they play in Europe’s top leagues. Well I have some big news to tell you — Argentina is a South American country and the league is not one of Europe’s top leagues. It is logically impossible for all of our young talent (17-23 year olds) to be in Europe, that is why we have no Vlahovic’s, Pedri’s, Mount’s, Wirtz’s, Dest’s and so on. A lot of us for whatever reason ignore the talent in Argentina, which probably removes 70-80% of 17-23 year old players, creating the impression we have no talent. Unless someone grabs the tectonic plates, moves Argentina into Europe, makes it a top five league, and makes it a first world country, that will always be the case. Now here is where some people will object and bring me to my second point; if that is the case, why is our talent in Argentina currently not playing at the same level and apparent ability as the player’s I previously mentioned? As I said, these players are born and Argentina and brought up in Argentina. Given the economic situation in Argentina (which affects the competitive level of the league), these talents are brought into a lower level and generally not developed as well as in Europe, essentially meaning that the European talent has a head start which causes them to be better at a younger age. Our talent would be better, more competitive, and more sought out if the league in Argentina was better. Forgetting all the players we have sold to Europe, imagine for a second that all of the Argentinians playing in Brazil, Mexico, and MLS were still in our league, it would certainly be better and improve all of the factors I’ve mentioned. This causes our talent to take longer to mature, as they are sold at later ages and don’t have that head start. Consider Paredes, De Paul, Tagliafico, Acuna, Papu, Guido, Ocampos, etc. They are all playing at high levels and are helpful to have in our national team CURRENTLY, but when they were young talents, did we consider them like the players I mentioned earlier? No, because they were in Argentina and did not mature as players yet. What matters is not comparing Vlahovic (who has had three seasons in Italy to bed in) to Gaich (who has had a career delayer of a season in Russia and has been in Italy for a couple months), but rather comparing the ideal XI of Argentina to Serbia
——-———–E.Martinez—————
Foyth/Montiel–Romero-Martinez-Acuna/Tag
——De Paul-Paredes-Lo Celso
—————Messi
——-Dybala/Aguero-Lautaro
———–Dmitrovic———–
Milenkovic—Maksimovic/Mitrovic-Kolarov
Lazovic-Milinkovic Savic-Gudejl/Matic-Kostic
—————Tadic—————-
——-Vlahovic-Jovic/Mitrovic
Comparing the young talent pool in Argentina to European countries is like comparing apples to oranges. What matters is winning games and winning trophies, which is done with a starting 11 of good players, which we have. Our starting 11 is made of of players that have had time in Europe and have developed, it can beat other starting 11’s.
Now about our world class players, some people care about talent, others stats, others reputation, and others the clubs the players are in. For me it is stats that matter solely, maybe considering a little bit of talent. Ddr1123, what you say about people choosing Emi Martinez, De Paul, etc in a starting 11 is true, people will opt for Ter Stegen, Allison, Neuer, Navas, etc. The reason being is that these players have big reputations from playing well consistently for years and are in big clubs. Other people preferring Ter Stegen to Emi is irrelevant because at the end of the day Emi Martinez has performed better than some of the players I’ve mentioned and as I’ve said what matters is winning games; if he performs world class for us it doesn’t matter what his reputation is. Same with De Paul and Romero. Now, it is true we don’t have a De Bruyne or Mbappe, but again you need to look at entire teams and starting 11’s to decide which is better. Except for Lukaku nobody else in the Belgium team can be considered world class, and we have several world class strikers anyways. The only teams that we truly have to watch out for when it comes to the amount of world class players and depth are France (although even a Sampaoli Argentina scored three goals against them and was the only team to be ahead of them at some point), England (albeit they have many overrated players), and possibly a future Hansi Flick Germany. Even Brazil needed VAR to beat us. There are better players than ours in specific positions but when considering teams as a whole we can beat many if we have an ideal starting 11 and a good system.
Moral of the story is not to compare young Argentinian talent to European talent because it tends to be irrelevant and often times is logically impossible, to consider performance above reputation, and to compare our teams as wholes. What matters is what our young talent can become in the NT for the future when they develop and not the amount of shirt sales our players can make in their Europe clubs.
“Lo Celso mine”, as if we do not remember or short in memory of what you have said @Casabala. You were very critical of Lo Celso since his PSG days. But, that doesn’t mean all what you say about the youngsters can be discredited.
since 2016 Rosario days, ofc i was critical about him, too big talent and shows much less so far, but talent is there. I liked Barco and Thiago Almada too. (unlike overrated Matias Vargas one of Gonzalo’s biggest favourites), but Barco missed his carrer choice, and cant improve there, Almada…we will see, OM will be a good transfer under Sampaoli in the place of Thauvin.
Psg ties against Rennes. They are three points behind Lille. Now psg depend on Lille slipping up at some point to win ligue 1. I believe in Pochettino but it would be very embarrassing (especially considering his trophy winking reputation) for him to not win ligue 1. To be fair some bad point losses came from Tuchel as well, nonetheless it’s n a good look
Psg isn’t team just individuals stars which isn’t suited
Pochettino stlye plus it will take time to implement his way of playing which high intensity consists pressing in opponent half and I will doubt Neymar and Kylian Mbappé will just do that and mine that poch just came
Over 5 months ago. overall I don’t think psg is righ club for poch.
True. Poch’s style is inspired by Bielsa and that is not drilled into players overnight. They also need to buy better full backs and defenders ASAP. Poch also seems too nice and genuine of a guy to be in a social media, plastic, oil money, and sometimes bad attitude team like PSG. Nonetheless for outsiders it will be a bad look if he doesn’t win the title, and another reason for them to made fun of his trophy record
It’s very tough for anyone to be coach at PSG because if the big players like Neymar and Mbappe are not happy with your tactics, the coach will not be supported by the board. I think Pochettino has been doing so so till now, true that they beat Barca and Bayern, but against Barca was due to Navas top performance and lot of luck against Bayern. His best part of coaching that I have seen so far was the 1st half against City during the 1st leg. But quite average for the rest, his football style has nothing to see with Bielsa, most of the time, he just let Neymar lot of freedom and use Mbappe’s pace to counter attack. I hope he will do better next year
HELLO CSABALALA, you should tread carefully through the area of predictions about Argentina’s youth players such as Ascacibar and others. Time has shown this is minefield for you. Your general ratio of fulfilled predictions vs missed is definitely not good.
It’s not difficult to observe what we see recently here is curious, suden turn in your opinions about several names you’ve normally fighted about with Gonzalo, criticizing or making fun of them (just look at the De Paul guy). That lasted till Gonzalo left and now you’ve changed your mind on them having opinions close to Gonzalo. Seems like the only thing that wouldn’t let you to say something positive about 90% of young Argentines was your ego and obstinance not to agree with Gonzalo.
Now just look at all these names Mundo members are mentioning daily as national team actual or virtual figures. Is not all of this one big proof fall of your former negationism? Contrary to your pessimism we have group of budding young footballers in Europe. In addistion, unprovoked by Gonzalo you even made some spectacular flop prediction over Lewandowski. He became the best striker in the world just a moment after your scoff about him. Greets
Bullshit, my predictions about the players and fighting about them (who have talents and big potential) Lautaro Martinez for the first minutes, Gonzalo blamed him over and over again, his favourite was Gaich (who is still nowhere) Paredes, the same story, his Ascacibar (bingo again) Lo Celso mine, his Lanzini (ofc succeed), and a lot more…sorry he was a football blind. De Paul is good, but still in a small italian club, so wait…
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