With Edgardo BAUZA announcing his list of domestic based players for October’s World Cup Qualifiers, what do you think of the list?
Mariano ANDUJAR, Emmanuel MAS, Guido PIZARRO and Lucas ALARIO were the four players called-up by BAUZA for the matches against Peru and Paraguay. What do you think of those call-ups?
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Kroos played attacking midfielder vs Brazil,Schweinsteige and Khedira was behind him.
Ok. But you must admit no matter where is Kroos placed in NT (normally at the same line with Khedira in defensive duo) he always may gives some runs or moments when he is like atacking midfielder.
Gonzalo, if we look at our starting lineups since Bosman rule, we’ll see (maybe besides goalkeepers) between 98-2014 in WCs, if i good remember there’s 0 players from the domestic league. (at that times too when imo the gap wasnt this big between the leagues 95-2004). So it’s only a dream, that players without(long) european experiences will be our key players in Russia. This will definitely not happen, and not accidental.
Ok maybe besides Mascherano, Sorin and Tevez from Brazil.
I remember still the Bielsa team of 2004. A lot of players who were not in European clubs then. And the team was playing great. I’m not expecting for a lot of players from Primera in NT. Not as key players. But usually the small numbers of domestic players may gives you some new qualities and at least some element of unexpectedness for your rivals. There is a lot of players who were best for NT rather as new players in Europe (without experience there) than later as experienced much in Europe. There is also group of players who debuted first in NT and soon after were going to Europe. Don’t forget never also that Mascherano had not even debut in River A team while was called up by Bielsa. It’s vision and courage of coach that I don’t see now.
But there’s still some kind of false propaganda. If someone do not watching live game but knows football by Whoscored statistics then he know not much about. Someone who didn’t watched yesterday Roma game would be to think after our Court Book-Keeper comment that Paredes was beast. But show me the moment in the game when he was really impressing. It was typical Paredes game when he did absolutely nothing special but praised so much.
160 passes? Look, 95% of them it’s are 5-10m passes to nearest teammate without any risk.
Now let see incorrect passes: ‘1 minute, ‘9,’17,’24,’27,’34,’42,’71,’72
Tackling: ‘4?,’9, 36-block, ’53?, 55? ’71 – oh! And look at some of the tackles. It’s rather very poor rival gives you the ball. If you want to see really impressive tackles look at Mascherano or Ascacibar
here is yesterday game for everyones (I don’t see any HD). Show me the moments when Paredes is “dominatig” and enogh impressive to play for NT. Stop with creating superstars after WHoscored:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP8jC0l38kQ
Our psychopath is attacking again, incredible you and your youtube videos Mr. Fanboy, your name is the perfect definition of psychopathy.
Btw Astra is a mediocre team, but definitely better than the half of the mediocre Argentine League, and easily better than shit teams like Chapecoense???, Coritiba and other Sunday League calibers.
No, I’m not psychopath, I’m just watching live games and not judge players from Whoscored. What is on the video everyone see. It’s not “domination”.
Csabalala, peace brother. I don’t want any rivalry. I don’t want to humilitate and put anyone down. You must understand: It’s just what I see. I’m saying just what I see. You can’t deny my pure impressions. Peace brother. Keep your believe in Paredes. Just understand for me he is not someone special. Atleast as far.
About Lanzini, i only hate him as our AM, simply not creative enough. As ZM, maybe but not his main position, energetic, hardworker, but imo too soft with his light weight, so…
So my starting lineup: Mascerano-ZM???-hardworking OM (why not Dybala? Much more diligent, than for example Özil, great dribbler, natural-born goalscorer, good long-range shooter, developing his passing game, our most modern attacking player, intelligent enough for an AM pos., always move up and down, mobile player, in Juve he does clearly everything)—Di Maria or Angel Correa (all eyes on him)—Icardi—Messi. 3 goal scoring player in the 11 is very important imo. Dybala, Messi, Icardi or (Aguero, Higuain). And if playmakers i believe in Lo Celso too, static static, but hardworker, good in defense for an AM, Unfortunately it seems Pastore never be step over his shadow…
Believe me Lo Celso will be a regular starter within a short period of time in PSG. (which Pastore never really managed too, because of lack of his defensive abilities). For Pastore Roma, Inter or even Milan would be a great transfer. Lucas, Rabiot, Matuidi all before him at Emery.
Listen to me, one of the hungarian sport chanel is broadcasting 3-4 PD matches in a week, i watch a lot, since the 2006-2007 season. Beforehand i watched on parabola Tyc Sports,ESPN and Fox, i seen Boca Libertadores victories, Copa Mercosur, than Copa Sudamericana parties (San Lorenzo trophies), Boca Juniors dominance of the Sudamericana etc.
And i seen the steady decline of the level of South American local leagues (and Argentinian) football. I searched all of the River 96 Libertadores matches, that was world class football yet (Burgos, Celso Ayala, Sorin, Altamirano, Almeyda, Astrada, Ortega, Gallardo, Francescoli, Crespo, than Aimars, Saviolas, Angels.) Bianchis Boca was rather a fantastically built architect with the sheer briliance of Riquelme. Lately the River with the Mascherano, Lucho Gonzales, Dalessandro (than Gallardo) midfield played very high level football too, good matches with modern tactics (at that time). The overall quality of the teams was good until cca. 2010, but always kept falling compared to the highest level of european leagues.
And today ? I have the feeling this is not the same sport anymore. Local games are soo hectic, chaotic, rudimentary build up plays, only running heavy strategies except of modern passing plays, the goalkeepers, and defenders pass behavior are so low, almost always without riskies they fucked the ball forward instead of try to play fluid continuous passing game. I now you hate Whoscored (dont now why), but our teams 60-65-70% passing accuracy perfectly reflects the problems. OK i konw the tempo of the PD was always high, and the pressing is very high. (Higher than in Europe)
But overall not modern football man. This is the main reason i love Paredes-type midfielders, who are smart enough to controll the game, the second group of midfielders i like, who plays high-risk game with good acuracy and creativity (Di Maria, Pastore). And i don’t like (at leats for Albiceleste) players not good enough none of the two parameters (Lanzini is a perfect example).
The trends of football show not toward warriors, rather playmaking DM’s (De Rossi, Busquets, Kroos) at least if we want to win WC in Russia. Energetic players dont guarantee anything, they are not Vidals. (Lanzini, Ascacibar, Pereyra, and others).
Btw Ascacibar-Paredes duo would be good football theoretically too, Ascacibar half DM.half ZM (box to box tendencies)-Paredes half DM-half regista or deep lying playmaker, but we all now Macherano will be the leader of the midfield in Russia like it or not, so for me Masche-Ascacibar pair is out of question, way too defensive, Biglia will be even more slower, today Banega is an AM, Enzo Perez and Augusto will be old too, and very injury heavies too, Kranevitter a big disappointment so far, Pizarro i dont know…btw believe me or not i saw cca 25-30 Mexican PD games in the past few years casue of the lot of argie players. So for me Paredes (have to be a key player in Roma, experience, experience, experience)-Mascerano would be the starting duo.
From Europe i only see games when at least one of our players play, otherwise i do not care Real Madrid, Bayern Münich, Chelsea ? Who the fuck cares, maximum from CL-16.
And maybe this is something what makes us so different in opinions. I feel long time you are loved in very technically players and unnecesarry phisical or fast or active or running much. Hence you talking much about Lo Celso or Paredes…
“And i don’t like (at leats for Albiceleste) players not good enough none of the two parameters (Lanzini is a perfect example)”. But what makes usefullness of some players is” they are not best in any point but they are decent and versatile in many. Maybe Lanzini is one of them maybe not but I think you know what I mean. Not only players specialits in one aspect – passer or runner – but passer and runner in one on decent level.
“The trends of football show not toward warriors, rather playmaking DM’s (De Rossi, Busquets, Kroos) at least if we want to win WC in Russia. Energetic players dont guarantee anything, they are not Vidals. (Lanzini, Ascacibar, Pereyra, and others)”.
Football is still more phisical and energetic game but recept for success must be mariage energy with technics (Maybe Paredes with Ascacibar indeed, who know). We may assume that intuitively that golden mean is the way. Isn’t it?
Primera always was “hectic, chaotic, rudimentary”. If someone can’t bear the style he never will like the league. Tactic is on second place here. I must to defend defenders of Primera. There’s a lot of youngsters who are really modern footballers. I can’t remeber when last time there was so many of promising defenders in Argentina. Barboza (Defensa), Romero (Belgrano), Conti (Colon), Gianetti (Velez, yes I belive still he will be good), Elias Gomez (Defensa), Jose Luis Gomez, Ezequiel Bonifacio (Gimnasia), Diarte (Estudiantes), Peruzzi or really still growing Tagliafico.
Duo Paredes – Mascherano is just too static for me. Mascherano has not runs to attack and Paredes too (even if he may give some creating passes). You may take Paredes as one DM but must combine him with someone who gives you more forward movement. Or you may take Masche and to pair him with active and running player as well. It’s my vision. Look at Germany. Base is Kroos Khedira duo. Kroos is passer but not only. He has also some offensive runs (especially in NT). Remember World CUp. Remember him against Brazil. He was running even to Brazli penalty box. 4 assists and 2 goals in the tournament. I’m not even talking about the second because Khedira is runner “par excellence”, actually box to box mifielder and sometimes attacking almost as winger. So modern football needs runs. At least one of your two DM’s must running. At least.
For last 10 years there are no youngster that made instant impact for Argentina nt.Most of them struggled at first then performance increased as they gained experience.This is the story of Messi himself,same with others.
See the latest example with Calleri.He was being much hyped for his 9 goals in Copa Lib.But failed miserably with Olympic.The name Gianetti and magallan was pronounced here and there,but looked really shaky in the field.Same case with Lo Celso.Even Rulli made costly mistakes.Lanzini was injured,but the match he played he was no special either.Only Ascacibar and Gomez stood out.Not saying others are not good,but naturally it takes time to settle and perform.
Inclusion of youngsters into nt is tricky matter for everyone except for Germany.
SA qualifiers is the toughest in the world and right now point table looks very competitive.Bauza just can not throw youngsters into the mouth of wolves.This is not the time to experiment whether Mauri,Iniguez,Joaquin Correa,even though they are talented they are raw.However team needs fresh legs.Bauza can try players who are matured but yet has not been called into nt.Like Perotti,Vazquez,Icardi,Paredes,Insua,Pizarro etc.Those are good performer,matured enough to play in hostile and changing playing environment,the one u find in Intl level.Some of them may not shine,but they won’t let u down with silly mistakes a youngster may make.And yes rulli deserve to be atleast 3rd GK of this team,he is one of those young talents but matured enough.
Mafioso,
Mauri, Iniguez or Correa are not players to include now of course (maybe even never). Maybe in future. I just wanted to show how we should not to talk only about the same players who are not necesarilly our best while we have interesting competitors. Player like Gaspar Iniguez is no one to hear now but the talent is there. I just talking about abilities to compare.
What about Calleri. I never was his fan but, to be honest it’s impossible we saw player of the same mentality both in Copa Libertadores (best goalscorer) and Olimpic Games. It’s coach work to give a player some self-confidence. Calleri must be better than he was in RIo or West Ham otherwise he would be never best goalscorer of Copa Libertadores. Besides he never will be player I like.
from golazo on pizarro”
“It is worth noting that although Pizarro can play as a defensive number five, in a similar role to that of Lucas Biglia alongside Javier Mascherano, but the 26-year-old is far more progressive and if given the license to move forward is more of a box-to-box midfielder. In all honesty a position that has been lacking in Argentina’s midfield for some time now”
For me names are just names yet their performances will decide… Hopefully we can secure 6 points from these two games
Paredes is exactly what Albiceleste need, he’ll be our most dominant midfielder with time, true ball-playind DM, today in EL 166 passes!!!! with 95% precision, 7 tackles, the most in the match. Good in defense too, De Rossi only plays except this lad cause one of the biggest legend of AS Roma history. Not for long…this guy is smart like hell, half Busquets half Kroos in his style. Totti was fantastic too, even with his 40 years old dinosaur age.
Saw this online. Leandro Paredes: Completed more passes vs Astra Giurgiu than any player has in a Europa League match in the last 5 seasons (157)
Despite all his qualities Paredes is not what we’re lacking in midfield. Right now we need mobile workhorses in the midfield and I don’t see Paredes running box to box. My question is what will Paredes add to the equation? I’d rather have Lanzini and Ascacibar for their mobility over Paredes.
I think Paredes will still add quite a bit more than Biglia, even he comes off the bench.
I think he will be able to add what Biglia never does – a little bit of attack and forward passing. At the moment he is the perfect substitute for Biglia.
As for Lanzini, he should play instead of Banega to go box to box.
very true on prad or lan, biglia for me is a bench player and some one id bring on only to defend a lead with say 10-20 mins to go.
I’m not going to start with new polemics about Peredes usefullness but:
– Astra Giurgiu was so weak. It was domination of Roma and not Paredes. Every player who would be there on Paredes CM place yesterday would have tone of passes, and correct passes. Because of domination one team. CM is focus place where most passes going through and if you have so weak opponent then statistics are impressive. Roma would have won the game 4:0 with Paredes or not. Totti makes difference. Paredes had not part in any goal.
– Paredes in place of Biglia or Banega? Yes, but just because the two are worn out and I’m sick of them. Paredes is not better passer than Banega while Banega is still more mobile player. Pareds is better than Biglia in passes aspect but Biglia also is more moblie player than Paredes. Biglia gives you still few runs to attack as you see on the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-IkY53RiU
while Paredes is more standing, static player than any other our central midfielders. It’s first reason because of I am so sceptic to him. Modern football has it’s requirements that must be fullfiled. You must run out game.
– there is also one more question people are not remark. The only Paredes passes that are usefull are that when he kicking the ball from deep midfield straight to forwards omitting players who are between forwards line and deep midfield. So in our case his passes must ommit and ignore players like Messi and Dybala in our team because of they are usually somewhere between mifield and attack to create the game. On the other hand if Paredes should release only 5 meters passes to Messi just to hand him ball then we should take someone other over Paredes who is better in defence and more runner. People ignoring some conditions of our team that are impossible to change as far as Messi is there.
If someone thinks Paredes is exactly what we need it’s ok. It’s just opinion. But I have my own diffrent opinion. Maybe Paredes is really what we need, I don’t know, but at the moment I don’t think so. I really don’t think so. TIme will tell. Maybe I’m wrong.
In my opinion we need more runner type in midfield. Pereyra – never like him much but maybe the one. Maybe Pizarro, Lanzini. But for me rather someone like Nacho Fernandez of River. Never my favourite because of some association to Di Maria but he is a runner, real box to box. Really active in defence, very good dribbler, more goals than Paredes and regularly with assists unlike Paredes.
If someone thinks Paredes is exactly what we need it’s ok. It’s just opinion. But I have my own diffrent opinion. Maybe Paredes is really what we need, I don’t know, but at the moment I don’t think so. I really don’t think so. TIme will tell. Maybe I’m wrong.
In my opinion we need more runner type in midfield. Pereyra – never like him much but maybe the one. Maybe Pizarro, Lanzini. But for me rather someone like Nacho Fernandez of River. Never my favourite because of some association to Di Maria but he is a runner, real box to box. Really active in defence, very good dribbler, more goals than Paredes and regularly with assists unlike Paredes.
It’s still the same attitude. I don’t understand why we should take one more time most popular player from Europe like Paredes who rather is not our best in the position, good only in one passes aspect while we may have complete one, much more versatile. But unfortunately he is unpopular peasant from domestic league.
Ok, the guy has completely failed episode in Udinese/Carpi last season, but I’m sure no one in this club has payed much attention to understand why he was not enough acclimatized yet to play at all. He has not played any single minute in Europe. I don’t understand why. One more time EUropean clubs can’t recognize talent of our players.
It’s Gaspar Iniguez of Tigre. Yes, it’s also one one those who are more talented than Paredes IMO. The same age. Represented Argentina youth teams.
While he is as much good passer as Paredes at the same time he has the Argentinean/Uruayan aggresive style in defence unlike Paredes. More active in this aspect, more of warrior. Paredes has beautifull ball control but Iniguez is at this aspect even better because of more movement. He is simile to young Banega 2007/08 of Boca time.
I don’t urge to watch full Tigre game for him so here is sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUcztPZBcbo
Or another Argentine Jose Mauri. I don’t think he is worse than Paredes. Making some things very simile for Empoli now in Paredes T-shirts. While he has more offensive potential to show with the time I think (what you may seen in the third video). He just start to play regularly for Empoli now after his Milan dark season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt3N9QJWd14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCFgkIUWuWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nQVzKEDU9w
Or another Argentine Jose Mauri. I don’t think he is worse than Paredes. Making some things very simile for Empoli now in Paredes T-shirts. While he has more offensive potential to show with the time I think (what you may seen in the third video). He just start to play regularly for Empoli now after his Milan dark season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt3N9QJWd14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCFgkIUWuWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nQVzKEDU9w
Bauza is calling some new players, but these are easy ones. They are local and not much of a controversy. They may or may not be in the first 11.
I think its the same story. If some of these local players transform into great players we will benefit. Otherwise I do not see Bauza making bold changes.
di maria….
http://www.espnfc.com.au/paris-saint-germain/story/2961791/angel-di-marias-psg-form-affected-by-poor-attitude-says-jerome-rothen
Pablo, and Bauza still believe he is our best LF,LM no matter what he gives. Someone also sholud change attitude of our coaches.
i agree and its unreal to see as soon as a coach takes over the n/t job he becomes blind.
it’s mix of blindness and cowardice.
he’s a big flop for Man United and now even worse for PSG….as a player he’s done…..like I said, he doesn’t deserve to be a sub for the NT. Stupid Bauza, stupid coaches, and Argentina NT is going downhill.
I want to see next match …..
….jaba……..otamendi….muri……..Mas
………………Mascarano ….Pizarro——
Maria……..,,,.Dybala…………correa…..
…………………heguin
Front page news in Argentina … Argentina to the World Cup finals of Futsal ! “Making history!”
http://www.ole.com.ar/futsal/semifinal-argentina-portugal-mundial-futsal_0_1658834291.html
If Icardi is ignored for off footballing reasons, how Rojo can be selected as he seems to be womanizing on a very regular basis. Rojo should never be selected if we consider his discipline. He smoke n seems not much interested in game. What ever he had done in the world cup, but he lacks some basic discipline which he clearly demonstrated with that red card against chile. Every thing changed in a very few minutes.
Lost all the confidence with Bauza. What the hell is he thinking only god knows. Taking players like Demi who retired at least three or four times and ignoring players like Icardi who is in the form of his life and taking a guy like Pratto ( not discouraging him but Icardi playing against one of the best defense line of Chielini, Bonucci n Barzagli ).
Patterns never change… Not much hope. Happy if we make the qualifiers. But our coaches hurt us a lot more than the opponent players n coaches..
Icardi is blocked by the so called friends of maxi lopez.
The players stopping icardi is not demichelis, it’s Messi. Aguero, higuain, dybala, correa, alario and Pratto. Argentina is stacked at striker! Even tevez is still in that conversion too. Yet, I think after a bad showing in this game, Pratto playing off the bench will lose his spot to icardi come the Colombia/Brasil games.
Although Rojo does have concerns with when to tackle and when not to (vs chile in The copa final), rojo’ off the field discipline equals a saint compared to icardis’. #facts icardi is a piece of shit for what he did after a man took him under his wing as an Argentina #facts but …. Icardi was very young and fell in love with his best friend on the team’s wife. Yeah he broke the golden rule but … He is a great #9 and we need his talent. I want him to play and I am a fan of all argentineans but let’s not compare his off field antics to Rojos…
Messi,correa,dybala aren’t 9.icardi is better than the rest you mentioned.
Let’s say we who want Rulli as No1 are biased…but Rulli not making the squad as reserve isn’t good enough?
This case, Icardi and others are the embodiment of injustice. It shows that performance doesn’t matter but friends matter.
We have been shooting ourselves in our leg for years and Bauza continues being the prototype of our former coaches. The name changes but the actions are the same. why even bother firing a coach just keep the same guy when he does the same things anyway.
I just pray for a miracle, because we need it to get rid of this f curse.
there is no reason to discuss icardi, rulli, tagliafico or change because the only change that will happen is injuries. I am not a guy who wishes injury on any human being. I hope no player ever gets injured, not only in our squad but I mean period.
It’s a shame Argentina is its worse enemy.
Performance doesn’t matter but friends matter.
Spot on ghost.
he previously brought pratto, alario and now pizarro.
so i’m counting there’s another 57 new players he will probably call up sooner or next, and he got 3 months until 2017-2018 to do that.
inbetween 2017-2018, how can he call up those at least 40-50 players and see whether they’re good or not for his wc squad? how many more matches left for argentina in 2017???
i’m guessing he will never call anymore than 5-10 new names, and that’s about it.
60 players on his radar my ass.
Good thinking.
However it could be more than 10 if he is as clever as Bielsa.
Bielsa called up two squads for the week they had to play away in Bolivia. He sent the second squad to LaPaz to get used to the height and train there for a week. Meanwhile the other team played a match in BA.
For 2 squads we would need 2 x 17 players. That would allow Bauza to call many new faces.
Pizarro is not domestic player so nothing changes in that point actually. No Acuna, no Ascacibar, no Tagliafico… It’s only Pizarro is positive, but as someone said who know he will get some minutes. If not injuries of BIglia and Augusto then Pizarro was not be called for sure so it’s hard to be enthusiastic.
Don’t get upset too early. If Pizarro perform well, he’ll be with the team. Bauza is giving chances to everyone. Pratto, Alario, Mas all getting 2nd chances to prove themselves. So, there is still hope….!
Yes, there’s still hope but to be honest it’s rather injuriers are the reason that impelling Bauza to call up new players.
I don’t understand the obsession with andujar…can’t young rulli be given time with the senior players ..there’s of course more to learn everyday
caballero rulli and Romero would be perfect & still if they want someone from the domestic league they can
Mas is short term solution
happy to see Guido
alario does have a future & he looked so sharp against Uruguay .
pratto is just a matter of case..not long for icardi to arrive
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